What do you feel is the best range for an EV?

[dbsb3233]

For me the range of these current cars is fine. What needs to be improved is charging speed. If you had an 800/1000v architecture and a car that could do 10-80% in under 20 minutes like the market leaders that would be ideal

That would help, but there's also a Catch-22 on the DCFC side. Getting megawatts of power to build more and more 350kw chargers in the cities isn't too difficult, but it's a different story in remote rural America. Many of those will be stuck with 150kw, or even 50kw, for longer.

But that's usually where people need DCFC -- outside the cities for road trips. That's surely part of why Tesla has so many V2 stations in rural areas, while V3s are more common in cities. Which is quite frustrating for us road-trippers. I wouldn't expect many rural EA stations to be adding more 350s either.

Power-sharing is probably the way to go, so at least some of the time people can get higher power (if there's no one else there).

Sponsored

 

[DYohn]

Lucid gets 500 miles of range and peak charging is over 300kw. Just dig deep into your pockets.

There are a couple reasons why I won’t buy a Lucid but price is not really one of them. They are beautiful things though.

Oh, and a lot of people are mentioning 300 mile range. My 2001 extended range Mach E does that now.

 

[KidGalahad]

The biggest consideration for me is not rated range, but actual range. I had a 2022 Mach-E Standard AWD that was rated at 222 (I think, maybe it was 211?) The only time I saw close to that was 35mph city driving. In the winter it was closer to 110. I ended up trading it in because it was completely inadequate for my needs.

I currently have a 2023 Premium AWD. Again, I'm not sure what it's rated at, but in normal driving scenarios (mixed between highway and city) I'm consistently getting 250-270ish, which feels about right to me.

So, I'd say 300 EPA would be the most flexible, and avoid range anxiety for most people. That said, in 3 years if we're still at an average of 300 EPA I'd say we are failing.

 

[tuminatr]

That would help, but there's also a Catch-22 on the DCFC side. Getting megawatts of power to build more and more 350kw chargers in the cities isn't too difficult, but it's a different story in remote rural America. Many of those will be stuck with 150kw, or even 50kw, for longer.

But that's usually where people need DCFC -- outside the cities for road trips. That's surely part of why Tesla has so many V2 stations in rural areas, while V3s are more common in cities. Which is quite frustrating for us road-trippers. I wouldn't expect many rural EA stations to be adding more 350s either.

Power-sharing is probably the way to go, so at least some of the time people can get higher power (if there's no one else there).

Here in MN that's definitely the case lots of 50kw chargers outside the metro. I used a 50kw ZEF charger in Crosby, MN over the weekend and the nearby Tesla is a V2 150kw in Brainard , MN so non Tesla cannot charge. But I think it's not a capacity issue it's a timing issue. The company ZEF installed these rural chargers about 5-7 years ago. In that timeframe a 50kw charger was state of the art.

Circle K and EA have a dozen or so rural high speed DCFC in the process of being built out and most should be in place for next year.

 

[azerik]

I think 350 miles of GOM range would help widen the cars reach and help lower range anxiety. However that would take people actually understanding that doing 80mph up hill 75% of a drive isn't going to yield even 250 miles.

The problem lies in the fact that for 100 years ICE drivers get to a point in a road trip (not paying attention to env factors or the fact they've been doing 5500rpm + uphill for an hour) and go 'shoot, need to get some gas in the next city'. That's the extent of planning usually. The only time I've ever had to plan for gas was going through Trinidad CO at 9:30 pm on my way to Denver in the late 90's.

350 GOM miles on my MME would 'allow' me to at least do 75 (the speed limit) uphill (~ 11,000 ft climb) to Flagstaff without worrying, from my house, nonstop.

 

[superdave80]

I can modulate my gas pedal and reach destinations

Your WHAT pedal?

 

[Rotmeat]

I have also taken long road trips from Western WA to Southern UT, West WA to East WA, and to Central OR. I am currently planning a possible trip to North Dakota across WA, ID, MT, into Western ND. Of those, only W. WA has a dense charging network. Still, now that Ford can use the Tesla network along with all of the other networks, the DCFC exists to make this ND trip possible as long as it's mainly on Interstates.

Sorry for butting in, just wanted to let you know that I regularly travel WY and SD (I live in Salt Lake and have family in South Dakota and Minneapolis), and NONE of the Supercharger stations in that region are V3, so we can't use them.

That area is honestly pretty sketch, and more than once I've had entire stations be unavailable, with no alternatives for 100 miles.

Be sure to check PlugShare for positive reviews within the past couple of days before you head to each station.

Also bring your mobile charger - if a station is unavailable, you might not have any L2 stations around, either, but you might be able to make it to an RV park.

I don't want to scare people off from driving through this region. Most of the time it's fine, and it's such a beautiful area! But prepare yourself for 3+ hour delays or detours.

Also consider stopping at the charger in Chadron, NE. The gas station is 24-hours, full-service, and the employees are super friendly! Plus the charger there costs about half of what EA charges.

 

[Jynxy in Texas]

After having my mach-e for about 20 months. And putting about 62k miles on it as of today, I feel like 90% of EVs should max out at 170 to 180 miles. Batteries are TERRIBLE for the environment. The MINI comes to mind as about the perfect size battery for 80% of people at 125 miles range, if they would just get over the range anxiety issue. Some actually do need the little extra mileage, but are still idea candidate for EVs as a daily drive. If you ACTUALLY care about the environment, you could just rent a car for the 2 or 3 trips a year you are actually going to go over 200 miles. Or just stop and charge somewhere. If over 600 miles, rent a car. It is WAY cheaper anyhow. The last time I had to charge at an electrify america, I paid 0.69 cents a kw.... Ain't no way I am taking a road trip in an ev that I have to stop and charge for 45 to 50 minutes, and pay about triples the price of a gas vehicle mpg equivalent.

I have now been in two different think tanks with EV owners (AAA and a schlesinger research panel), and not a one of the other people in these groups were driving over 10k miles on their EVs. Many had NEVER used a charging station. Many had under 5k with a year of ownership.

 

[RickMachE]

The “range doesn’t matter” / “range is already fine” crowd’s arguments appear to be:

Once chargers are more plentiful, range will be irrelevant because people will grow accustomed to stopping more frequently and regardless, people don’t road trip much anyway.

All three factors above are erroneous.

1. DCFC abundance has been promised for years, and it remains woefully inadequate. Overcrowded in dense propulsion centers, and still largely nonexistent in rural America. It’s always just around the corner, and it will remain just around the corner for years to come.
2. Even if most people road trip less than 10% of their total miles, that is irrelevant. People buy expensive vehicles for all use cases. If you want to buy an EV as a second car to commute to work and grab groceries - great.
3. People outside the big cities are never going to grow accustomed to stopping every 100 miles for 15-20 minutes at a time to fuel up. This is a scarcity “learn to make do” mindset that is antithetical to most Americans. Not gonna happen.

Range matters. Once EVs can attain 400+ miles of range at highway speeds and refuel in under 15 minutes - basically ICE-equivalent - I expect they’ll become much more popular.

Your comments show your lack of understanding.

The reason to put chargers every 50 miles is not so people can stop every 100 miles. It's so no matter where you are, a charger is no more than 50 miles away on your route, so you don't have to plan so much.

As to non-existent chargers in rural America, you clearly haven't traveled. We drove through Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Do you consider the Bonneville Salt Flats a dense population (or propulsion as you say) center? We drove through vast areas with nothing but land - no buildings, no cities, only one road - and yet there were chargers for us to do our trip just fine.

There is no reason you can't have an EV as a primary car, or as both your vehicles. A year ago we said "we're keeping the gas truck". We sold it in November.

Part of enjoying an EV is having a positive mindset. Some people just don't.

 

[RickMachE]

After having my mach-e for about 20 months. And putting about 62k miles on it as of today, I feel like 90% of EVs should max out at 170 to 180 miles. Batteries are TERRIBLE for the environment. The MINI comes to mind as about the perfect size battery for 80% of people at 125 miles range, if they would just get over the range anxiety issue. Some actually do need the little extra mileage, but are still idea candidate for EVs as a daily drive. If you ACTUALLY care about the environment, you could just rent a car for the 2 or 3 trips a year you are actually going to go over 200 miles. Or just stop and charge somewhere. If over 600 miles, rent a car. It is WAY cheaper anyhow. The last time I had to charge at an electrify america, I paid 0.69 cents a kw.... Ain't no way I am taking a road trip in an ev that I have to stop and charge for 45 to 50 minutes, and pay about triples the price of a gas vehicle mpg equivalent.

I have now been in two different think tanks with EV owners (AAA and a schlesinger research panel), and not a one of the other people in these groups were driving over 10k miles on their EVs. Many had NEVER used a charging station. Many had under 5k with a year of ownership.

You're basing charging cost on one example... And 45 to 50 minutes? Try 30 to 35. The highest cost EA station we've seen is 64 cents, which is 48 cents with Pass+. Charge for free at many hotels, and some public DCFC chargers. We usually find 1 or 2 free DCFC per trip. And leave home with a cheap tank. On a 4,700 mile trip, over 30% of our charging was free.

 

[Jynxy in Texas]

I do amazon flex with this vehicle. I hardly ever charge out and about. I do not have a plan that gets cheaper rates, since I hardly ever travel with it. I did go on a trip to new orleans, so I did join a plan. I plugged in and never could get the 'plan' to work. After ten or so minutes, my spouse was aggravated. I turned on the ford auto charge thing, and just paid the actual higher fee. It was 0.69. That is what it cost. I paid over 40$ to go about 180 miles (cruising at 85).

When I first bought the car and didn't have a charger, I was charging from about ~5 to 10% to 100% mostly everyday for maybe 35 days or so and it was usually taking about 50 minutes at the electrify america that is close to me on I10 in Houston. I had not charged at a station from empty to full for about 17 months until that road trip to New Orleans. It took us about 50 minutes. There were four chargers and there were four vehicles using the chargers. I had to wait about 25 minutes for a charger to become available. So add that time in as well. Maybe you are ok with stopping for even 35 minutes, but my spouse already is anti EV and the wait and the charging is a big downer that I have nothing to overcome.

It works GREAT for amazon flexing and ubering. I am getting usually close to 300 miles of driving with it on any given day. Usually pulling in with less than 5% of battery left most days I am side gigging.

 

[B177y]

Sorry for butting in, just wanted to let you know that I regularly travel WY and SD (I live in Salt Lake and have family in South Dakota and Minneapolis), and NONE of the Supercharger stations in that region are V3, so we can't use them.

That area is honestly pretty sketch, and more than once I've had entire stations be unavailable, with no alternatives for 100 miles.

Be sure to check PlugShare for positive reviews within the past couple of days before you head to each station.

Also bring your mobile charger - if a station is unavailable, you might not have any L2 stations around, either, but you might be able to make it to an RV park.

I don't want to scare people off from driving through this region. Most of the time it's fine, and it's such a beautiful area! But prepare yourself for 3+ hour delays or detours.

Also consider stopping at the charger in Chadron, NE. The gas station is 24-hours, full-service, and the employees are super friendly! Plus the charger there costs about half of what EA charges.

I-90 and I-94 from Western WA to Western ND which is my planned route are well covered by compatible Tesla chargers (according to the Tesla app for non-Tesla EV's):

EA and others are also available and well spaced on this route. Most of these suggested stops in ABRP had other DCFC networks available close by:

I was pleasantly surprised on the amount of available DCFC. This is definitely where the longer range (300+ miles) comes in handy with 80mph speed, cool-cold weather, wind and elevation changes. It also shows that lower range EV's can possibly work if they are able to use CCS and NACS networks, you would have to stop more often though.

Even SLC to Badlands NP to Minneapolis seems possible, at least with an MME CR1 during summer (my made-up trip in ABRP just to see...)

 

[SonicBlue]

Your comments show your lack of understanding.

The reason to put chargers every 50 miles is not so people can stop every 100 miles. It's so no matter where you are, a charger is no more than 50 miles away on your route, so you don't have to plan so much.

As to non-existent chargers in rural America, you clearly haven't traveled. We drove through Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Do you consider the Bonneville Salt Flats a dense population (or propulsion as you say) center? We drove through vast areas with nothing but land - no buildings, no cities, only one road - and yet there were chargers for us to do our trip just fine.

There is no reason you can't have an EV as a primary car, or as both your vehicles. A year ago we said "we're keeping the gas truck". We sold it in November.

Part of enjoying an EV is having a positive mindset. Some people just don't.

Well, I agree you need a positive mindset to enjoy an EV. ICE appears to be compatible with all mindsets.

First, there are plenty of EV enthusiasts - you know this as well as I do - who think that automakers chasing longer range and heavier batteries is wrong. Instead, people need to get used to charging more frequently. You know this. But for some reason, ignoring this.

Second, even if a DCFC is available every 50 miles, that’s still requires planning and backup planning. You would never run your charge down below 50 miles to that last available charger. Not unless you want to take a big gamble. You know this.

Third, I am painfully aware of road tripping through the Midwest. Of course it can be done. That doesn’t mean it is nearly as easy as with an ICE. You know this.

I think that pesky positive attitude may be clouding your assessment. I think we owe people realism. The good and the bad.

 

[TheSteelRider]

I'm doing a bit of research for a future EV purchase. Looking at Luxury/Performance sedans mostly but am also considering SUVs from a couple manufacturers.

For me range is a focal point, maybe unnecessarily but still...

The routes I travel on have charging stations placed infrequently. Anyway, I'm seeing range for performance sedans topping at 240-250 +/- and SUVs closer to 300.

If DCFC options were better this wouldn't be a consideration for me.

So....1. What do you feel the optimal range is?
2. What do you think the DCFC world will look like in 2yrs time?

In 1984, the USPS honored Smokey Bear's 40th anniversary with a postage stamp. I remember back in the 80's watching those after school specials, Smokey Bear used to say, "Only YOU can prevent forest fires".

Fast forward 40 more years and if Smokey were around today he would log on to this forum and reply to this thread, "Only YOU can determine the optimal EV range for your use-case."

 

[VaporTrails]

Your WHAT pedal?

So I should call it a “Potential to kinetic transformation actuator?” My friends think I’m going to burn in the fires of eternity for buying an EV. Good luck kids, we’ll die off soon enough.

Sponsored