Mach-e for Road Trips just sucks. Not even close. More expensive than gas

[bbulkow]

Again opinions, not facts supported by citations. Unfortunately you are equivicating, i.e. you claimed people didn't cut back on gas usage when prices rise. I showed you they did and you switched to gas prices not going down when consumption is reduced. You have confused fixed cost with variable costs, then try and excuse that error with rhetoric about cost pre hour. As the saying goes, you are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your facts. Get back to me when you can back up your opinion with verifiable facts.

Sorry i don't have the url of the research, but as i understand gas consumption is measured as inelastic in california at prices lower than about 4.50 or 5.00.... and elastic above that. I believe that research was pre pandemic.

Transportation, by car, with gas, being central to most american life, one would expect limited elasticity until prices are quite high.

In some sense the data is easy to come by (price and gallons sold in a market are well tracked), but avoiding confounding factors such as general decrease in economic activity, or post pandemic office policies driving commute changes, make the analysis not straightforward... Thus a bit suspect when used by anyone with a political point to make.

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[leeman]

Yes well depending on where you go for charging here in California Tesla chargers can be as high as $.83 per kilowatt. Even though California has the highest gas prices in the United States including Hawaii thanks to Gavin Newsom and his gameplay. An electric car for the most part charging at home is up to $.48 per kilowatt now if you factor in time time is important especially when you're older if you're over 50 you realize that time is important and waiting for a charger to continue your trip even if you are a climate angel is still a huge bummer and it comes to waiting in traffic on the LA freeways. So I can totally see where this guy's coming from although we have an electric car and I use it on occasion for a round town I call it my expensive golf cart it's not convenient in the way that people would think when things break they can be catastrophic and caused a huge amount of money if you get an accident with the car the likelihood of it being able to be put back on the road is very slim because generally most accidents do involve the battery area and most insurance companies total the vehicle. The other part is insurance is higher because of that plus if you're in California you pay a additional fee because they don't collect tax dollars from selling gasoline to you so they charge you more for your registration not that your insurance is more by a lot. Now the electric car is fine don't get me wrong it has its place my wife uses it to drive back-and-forth to work on crowded Mondays and Fridays so she can use the carpool lane to save 40 minutes round-trip on those days and keep her sanity. Mechanically the car's been OK it does some weird things because it has so many electronics and the ride is for the most part awful unless you feel like you wanna race around town which makes it a little more fun but just driving long distances with the bouncy back end of these things is just my numbing overtime it does not write well at all for long-distance rides that said we still own it it has a purpose but it is not our primary vehicle by any means I still enjoy the ride and comfort of my gas powered car and even though I have a V6 twin turbo it still gets great gas mileage when I'm on the highway up to 30 miles per ga which means I can drive from LA to Las Vegas without even fill up with my AC full blast my stereo full blast and all the accessories not draining the main battery full blast whatever that might be. So there's always some point of concession but I will say this repair vehicles are more of a Faustian bargain for those who know what that means.

 

[JoeBeach]

Yeah, FPL is winning the price war. I regularly use one in Naples that is across the parking lot from a Tesla and about 10 miles away from an EA that has been historically bad on operability. The FPL is the cheapest and is very reliable. I’ve seen a broken one once or twice but they seem to get fixed quickly. The only drawback is that they are a little slower. They max out at 80kw. They have some higher power units at other locations though. FPL is $0.30, EA with a membership is $0.42 and Tesla varies between $0.43 and $0.49.

Note that the$.56 was
WITH membership! That was posted on the kiosk.

 

[Tampamike]

Note that the$.56 was
WITH membership! That was posted on the kiosk.

Not that I’ve seen. They’re always advertising $0.56 or $0.42 with pass+ membership. Maybe that higher number shows on the screen as “membership” because of Plug & Charge on Blue Oval Network? Possibly?

 

[V8toEV]

After 30k, I finally did my first road trip in my Mach-e (Houston to Dallas and back, leave Friday, back Saturday)

253 miles. Cost was $0.14 at my house, and $0.56 at each of 3 EA stops I had to make. Total cost $48. 133 kWh used. Efficiency was 1.9 - wow.
Stopped twice in Ennis, TX Walmart - 3 of 4 chargers out of service - had to wait for the 1 working one. Total time 75 minutes.
On the way home, had to wait again for the 1 working charger, total wait time 90 minutes.
Third stop was a little better (Huntsville), 3 of 4 working, but 1 was 30kWhr only ... I got the high speed, wait 20 minutes.

If I drive my F150, range is 550 miles, so NO stops, and gas at US$2.60 a gallon, cost is $43 - $5 LESS than the EV.

Just wow - I get it why people don't want to buy EVs. I am lucky, it's my 2nd car, and I love my Mach-e for getting around town, but these Public Chargers are a joke.

Peace

Agreed 100%

My Mach-E GT has become a pretty expensive errand vehicle. Highway efficiency is only about 2.2 mi/kWh which translates to about 200 miles of range on a full battery. My V8 Dodge Charger goes 370 miles on the same route at same flow of traffic speed!

As you said, I am so glad that I didn't do away with the ICE vehicle!

 

[Snakebitten]

If I had to plan that level of detail for fuel stops, I'd rather get a GA pilot's license and fly. Way more fun.

I don't know.
I admit that taking off (V1) and landing is more fun than driving my Mach-E.
But the monotonous hours that can sit between those two events? Not so much. ?

But that's just me.

 

[Gloff]

Lol.

The "nerd" math is just simple division. Come on man. It's not that EV road trippers are any larger-brained than non-EV'ers, it's just your "average consumer" would rather simply find a gas station when the fuel level gets to a 1/8th of a tank, stop and recharge for 400+ miles in 5 minutes. And then be on his way.

If I had to plan that level of detail for fuel stops, I'd rather get a GA pilot's license and fly. Way more fun.

Nerd Math and big brains is tongue in cheek. You and I have the same viewpoint.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don't know.
I admit that taking off (V1) and landing is more fun than driving my Mach-E.
But the monotonous hours that can sit between those two events? Not so much. ?

But that's just me.

Oh I don’t know. I flew an MD-11 for 17 years. Landings weren’t fun, they were an adventure. Sort of like using a June 2024 Tesla built adapter.

 

[Old_Norm]

Lol.

The "nerd" math is just simple division. Come on man. It's not that EV road trippers are any larger-brained than non-EV'ers, it's just your "average consumer" would rather simply find a gas station when the fuel level gets to a 1/8th of a tank, stop and recharge for 400+ miles in 5 minutes. And then be on his way.

If I had to plan that level of detail for fuel stops, I'd rather get a GA pilot's license and fly. Way more fun.

Are you sure about that?
" For instance, a study by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) found that EV owners in the United States are more likely to have a college degree or higher1. This trend might be influenced by the fact that early adopters of new technologies, like EVs, often have higher education levels and incomes, which enable them to afford the initial higher costs of these vehicles."

 

[Jimrpa]

I hate to be judgmental but, having done several long-distance road trips (1,000 miles plus) now, I have no idea what the OP is talking about. Perhaps Texas just has bad electrical infrastructure?

 

[4sallypat]

Oh I don’t know. I flew an MD-11 for 17 years. Landings weren’t fun, they were an adventure. Sort of like using a June 2024 Tesla built adapter.

Wow, that's amazing to be a commercial airline pilot!

I am starting my flying dream now as I approach retirement.

I am worried about getting a class 3 medical flight certificate due to my age, meds, arthritis....

The adapter recall is like me - prone to failure

 

[RKinWA]

I just finished an "Epic Roadtrip", but since it wasn't in my MME, I can't really post it as a road trip, but it fits with this thread. I was originally going to use my MME, but after calculating with ABRP, it would have added about 26 hours of charging time to my trip, not taking into account down chargers or wait times. And since so much of the trip was in remote areas in the desert (100+ degrees), I just didn't have the extra time off to do it. I ultimately decided to buy a backup ICE vehicle for the trip.

I saw SO many MMEs on the trip, but each time I asked them how they liked it, they said it was a rental, and they were trying to figure out how to keep it charged. I told them about ABRP and Plugshare to assist them.

In any case, here were the final numbers on my trip.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Wow, that's amazing to be a commercial airline pilot!

I am starting my flying dream now as I approach retirement.

I am worried about getting a class 3 medical flight certificate due to my age, meds, arthritis....

The adapter recall is like me - prone to failure

That type of flying is fun.

Getting paid to look out windows was way cool.

The third class medical will be fine. You can go online and look at more reputable sites to get an idea about any medications. Worst case scenario is look into recreational pilot medical requirements.

The MD-11 had “behavioral issues” on landing due the rather questionable design decisions made by McDonnell Douglas during design which were neither acknowledged nor addressed until after the merger with Boeing during that extremely brief golden period when Boeing was still running things.

Very briefly the aircraft was dynamically unstable for fuel conservation reasons. To make it fly like a normal airplane they had stability augmentation computers. Which in their infinite wisdom they decided to have automatically turn off at 50 feet above the ground. Pilots had to land the thing in a nearly backward manner from a normal airplane.

 

[Old_Norm]

That quote is not found in that article you linked. Maybe you need to try again. Over educated people tend to worry about useless crap like saving the planet and controlling the climate (either positive impacts or detrimental impacts).

But of the regarding the article linked, I can poke holes in most all of the statements made. One example is

"Electricity costs less per kilowatt-hour (kWh) than gasoline or diesel, leading to savings on fuel expenses." In the US, this is not a true statement. You're well educated, you can do the math. [caveat: Perhaps the EV Magazine is based in the UK - they spelled "tire" as "tyre" and "maneuvering" as "manoeuvring"]

Another example, the article makes it seem like EV have a safety advantage over ICE, quote:

"EVs have cutting-edge safety features to protect drivers and passengers. Among these features, you'll find:

-Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB): The smart system detects potential collisions and automatically applies the brakes to avoid or lessen impacts.
-Lane-Keeping Assist (LKA): By monitoring lane markings, it gently nudges the vehicle back into its lane if it starts to drift.
-Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC): A lifesaver on highways, it adjusts the vehicle's speed to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle ahead.
-Blind Spot Monitoring (BSM): Alerting drivers to vehicles in their blind spots significantly boosts situational awareness.
-Surround View Cameras: Offering a 360-degree view around the vehicle, these cameras make parking and manoeuvring a breeze.
-Over-the-Air Updates: Always keep the vehicle's software current with the latest safety enhancements, ensuring ongoing protection and performance improvements."

Most ICEV, even the cheap ones have all this same "technology".

And I can easily show examples of ICEV that are less expensive to operate on a per-mile basis when all life-cycle costs are included.

Yeah, I have no idea how that quote hyperlinked to that article. Thanks for the additional opinions. But getting back to my point, you claimed the average EV Driver is no more intelligent (bigger brained) than the average ICE driver. I provided a study that states differently. If you disagree, please provide something other than an opinion to support your position.

Here are better data:

"CalMatters’ statewide analysis of ZIP codes reveals a strikingly homogenous portrait of who owns electric vehicles in California: Communities with mostly white and Asian, college-educated and high-income residents have the state’s highest concentrations of zero-emission cars. And most are concentrated in Silicon Valley cities and affluent coastal areas of Los Angeles and Orange counties. "
https://calmatters.org/environment/2023/03/california-electric-cars-demographics/

Who Owns Battery Electric Vehicles - Demographics
Gender: Primarily male(67%). Females are significantly more likely to be “Fence Sitters” or “Rejectors”
Age: Primarily under the age of 45 (68%)
Education: Primarily those with higher education (a college degree+) (56%)
Ethnicity: Predominantly White/Caucasian (62%) followed by Asian (15%)
Relationship: Predominantly Married/Cohabiting/Domestic Partnerships (72%)Annual Household Income: Predominently higher household income segments ($100K+) (62%)
https://news.mullenusa.com/the-u.s.-electric-vehicle-market-exploring-ownership

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...-a-new-car-in-the-last-5-years_fig5_269694568

 

[Old_Norm]

I don't have time today to get into an internet thesis paper exercise. I'll say the data you cite are for California, which skews analysis to make projection for US national averages. There are millions of Americans (outside of the Costal and Cali-Environmental Eletes) who are in higher income brackets and are not post-graduate degreed.

But my original reply was strictly tied to the comment (in jest) regarding "nerd math" and the implication EV owners are "big-brained". It's just simple division. Not a tall ask.

Thought so. Only the first cite was about California. Last cite pretty much dispels your opinion. I'm just tired of people making unsubstantiated claims. I'm of to tilt at the next windmill.

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