How is this car not selling better?

[dbsb3233]

Gas stations make very little off gas. They make most of the profits off the other stuff they sell. EVs take longer to charge so the people will probably go inside. I never go inside filling up my ICE vehicles. I just pay at the pump. I get that not all of them have the room, but the big ones off main highways usually do. I wish more would have chargers.

But they do make money off gas (or at least stay near break even), while DCFC is usually a big loss.

The bigger point though is only 1/10th the foot traffic as gas per pump. It's the foot traffic that generates the other sales. Most people are gonna go in and pee whether driving EV or ICE on a road trip. Even tho a 30 minute stop is a bit more likely for someone to buy something when they go in, it's nowhere near 10x more likely. The drastically lower foot traffic means drastically lower ancillary revenue per pump.

We all *wish* they'd add DCFC though.

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[Mach1E]

... baseless fear and misinformation erode EV sales in general.


Number of fires
According to the National Transportation Safety Board, there are about 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold, compared to about 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold.

I find it interesting that these same stats are posted here along with the words “misinformation.”

This data has been completely debunked.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

Do you honestly think gas powered cars are 60 times as likely to catch fire??

 

[dbsb3233]

This calls for a RANT!

To this sales guy, EVs are an existential threat. Not just to their business, but to their identity.

• Rivian and Tesla sell lifestyle vehicles... that can sorta do truck stuff. and sell lots of them.
• Ford sells an Electric F-150... that does practical truck stuff but not the emotional truck stuff... not so many are sold.
  • they aren't lifted,
  • they don't have chrome wheels,
  • they don't make lots of noise
  • they don't make smoke

I suspect, the market shift for lifestyle vehicles will be 5-10 years faster than for trucks... A lot of people have their identity tied up in their truck... They don't need one to tow, or haul things but the image is what matters to them. And, crudely what they value is "big" and "high" "loud" because of the image it portrays, not for practical "doing truck stuff" reasons. look in the bed of most trucks... no scratches... nothing has been in there.

• The weight of trucks has increased by 32% since 1990
• The height of a pickup truck front hood has grown by an average of more than 11% since 2000

These trends aren't for practical reasons... it's because people want this.

end of RANT

No doubt there's a little of that, but that's not why 95% of pickup buyers buy a pickup. Most like the truck utility, whether it be full time for work, or part time for ad hoc uses thru the year. It's the same reason SUVs are so popular - they can handle a wider variety of use cases, even if that extra utility is only used 5 times a year.

Plus, pickups used to have one bench seat and rode like a brick. People only wanted to settle for that if they really needed it. Now pickups are usually 2 rows with luxury seating that often have a smoother ride than a car (most say the Lightning has a smoother ride than the Mach-E, for instance). They're basically SUVs, but with a bed rather than a cargo area in the rear. They're really nice for everyday driving, plus you get the added bonus of hauling that dining room set home from Costco.

 

[RockinVs]

Do you honestly think gas powered cars are 60 times as likely to catch fire??

To be fair... they are internal Combustion engines. They are always catching fire. Usually controlled.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

I have absolutely no idea because I have absolutely no idea why anyone else does or doesn't buy something. I also don't really care. ? Their money, not mine. When that changes, I'll update this post.

 

[SonicBlue]

There was another thread about posting positive experiences with the MME. @Ford Motor Company responded with a few posts.
However it disappeared as soon as others responded with some reality checks and nagging issues. ?

It’s an AI bot. The DMs don’t even appear to go to the EV team - just regular customer service.

 

[Mach1E]

When this subject comes up I laugh. Like C\D, my review of the data would lead one to think ICEV catch on fire all the time. In the past 40+ years I've driven over 1.4M miles. I've seen just one (1) car fire.

Yeah it’s a simple case of “you can say anything on the internet and people will believe it.”

Most people look at data and don’t do a simple “do those numbers look right?” Check.

Instead they repost them because it fits the narrative of the story or argument they’re trying to say.

I don’t think we have the real numbers because car fires by vehicle type isn’t something that’s currently tracked.

 

[Mach1E]

It’s an AI bot. The DMs don’t even appear to go to the EV team - just regular customer service.

They connect you with a local service department.

It does streamline the process a bit.

The “EV team” can’t fix your car. The local dealer can.

 

[4sallypat]

Yeah it’s a simple case of “you can say anything on the internet and people will believe it.”

........

^^^^

 

[Tampamike]

This calls for a RANT!

To this sales guy, EVs are an existential threat. Not just to their business, but to their identity.

• Rivian and Tesla sell lifestyle vehicles... that can sorta do truck stuff. and sell lots of them.
• Ford sells an Electric F-150... that does practical truck stuff but not the emotional truck stuff... not so many are sold.
  • they aren't lifted,
  • they don't have chrome wheels,
  • they don't make lots of noise
  • they don't make smoke

I suspect, the market shift for lifestyle vehicles will be 5-10 years faster than for trucks... A lot of people have their identity tied up in their truck... They don't need one to tow, or haul things but the image is what matters to them. And, crudely what they value is "big" and "high" "loud" because of the image it portrays, not for practical "doing truck stuff" reasons. look in the bed of most trucks... no scratches... nothing has been in there.


These trends aren't for practical reasons... it's because people want this.

Totally agree. Here in my Fl neighborhood, I can’t tell you how many trucks there are that never see a brick or 2x4 or dirt in the bed. F-150 - It’s the dad car. I just went to the local Ford dealer last night to talk about a new MME. On the way out of the lot I must have passed a hundred F-150’s lined up. The’re big vehicles that get even bigger after they’re bought. It’s insane to me how much money people must put into hese behemoths. Like you said, though, it’s what the people want, kind of like, ah, … never mind.
The F-150 Raptor - the state bird of Florida.

 

[RockinVs]

All I know is...
The bigger the truck, the more they are compensating for something.

 

[Mach1E]

It's just disinformation trying to deflect the severity and causality of EV fires vs. ICEV. ICEV don't experience thermal runaway.

Statistically, both architectures are very safe.

For sure the severity of the situation matters as much or more than the frequency.

3 lb Yorkies might bite people as often as 80 lb pit bulls, but the severity of the bite matters more than the frequency.

 

[jgcom]

Many of us in this forum, particularly those who bought early, did not buy because of conventional marketing. We wanted it when it was announced. FWIW, if my '21 Mach-E were totaled tomorrow, I'd likely buy another one. I guess the question for Ford and its dealers is to reach people who don't already know they want it... My hunch is that sales staff would do well to sit in on a community college class on electronics and learn about Ohm's law, power, and energy. But I'm biased.

 

[Blue highway]

I find it interesting that these same stats are posted here along with the words “misinformation.”

This data has been completely debunked.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

Do you honestly think gas powered cars are 60 times as likely to catch fire??

Do you really think EV's catch on fire at the same rate as ICE cars?

lots of other independent sources that all say the same thing... ICE cars catch fire at a much higher rate than EVs.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/my...s-are-electric-cars-susceptible-catching-fire

The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...uilty-of-excess-short-term-fire-risk-charges/

“The overall arching takeaway (from the data) is that the rate of fires happening is less for EVs than petrol or diesel cars, and quite substantially,” said James Edmondson, Research Director at Cambridge, England-based independent researcher IDTechEx in an interview.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11/ev-fires-less-likely-than-ice-vehicle-fires-research-finds/

Lastly, it appears that the leading cause of EV fires is arson.

 

[Blue highway]

In September 2023, I had a few hours to kill and headed to the nearest Ford dealer that sold EV and had a July-build MME to check the Mach E out. The interaction with the sales woman was terrible. She was scared shitless with me behind the wheel (right seat comments - I wasn't her husband...). She really had no knowledge of the MME and when I asked about how to open the door if there was an electrical failure, man was that a complete fail. It was a short test drive to say the least.

I joined this Forum the next day to get insight on the MME. While being a veteran of internet car forums and understanding most posts are complaint oriented, I can separate the wheat from the chaff. I have to say this Forum does the MME no favors. My takeaway after being here since September last year is the car has some fundamental design flaws that as an ICEV customer to convert to EV, I just don't see a compelling reason to do so.

Entry price, operating cost, range and fueling inconvenience, over-relance on technology, and over-driven tech insertion, are turnoffs for me. Build a less tech-reliant, simpler machine, with a removable TV screen, real door handles, a reliable LVB system (3-year replacement intervals are ridiculous), 400 - 500 mile highway miles range in winter with real cabin heating and 30-minute recharge speed (in winter) and I'd be interested.

so you don't have an MME or any electric car?

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