How is this car not selling better?

[SpeedRacer72]

In September 2023, I had a few hours to kill and headed to the nearest Ford dealer that sold EV and had a July-build MME to check the Mach E out. The interaction with the sales woman was terrible. She was scared shitless with me behind the wheel (right seat comments - I wasn't her husband...). She really had no knowledge of the MME and when I asked about how to open the door if there was an electrical failure, man was that a complete fail. It was a short test drive to say the least.

When I test drove a Tesla, I showed up, the salesman gave me a primer on the controls, helped me adjust the mirrors, seat, etc, , and I drove away, the salesman did not go with me and I drove the car for an hour. After I got back, i asked a few technical questions and the salesman was able to answer them all. I ordered my Tesla the next day.

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[zvez]

I do not. I did have an electric garden tractor in 1973 (best lawn tractor ever made IMO) and I have an electric golf cart, and an electric mower for trimming a hill. I'm not a stranger EV by any stretch.

but wanting an lfp with 500 highway mile range and fast charges in 30 minutes isn't available on any platform yet. Mystified by the three year replacement window tho? I'm not aware of any 21 mach e's that are no longer driveable at the three year mark. At least for me I consider the 8yr/100k battery warranty the hardstop for replacement, even then it's questionable because numerous mach e's well over 100k still going strong.

 

[Dear_OP]

Sadly we experienced what @Efthreeoh not once but twice at the Ford dealerships in regards to testing out the MME. The Ford folks are either clueless or uninterested with EV products. They are still employing the age old sales tactics. One of the dealership still has this "sales tower". This is not 1980s! Alas, my wife pretty much said "Is this what you want to deal with as part of owning this Ford that no one seems to know or care?". We left and never look back.

When I test drove a Tesla, I showed up, the salesman gave me a primer on the controls, helped me adjust the mirrors, seat, etc, , and I drove away, the salesman did not go with me and I drove the car for an hour. After I got back, i asked a few technical questions and the salesman was able to answer them all. I ordered my Tesla the next day.

That was our experience as well.

 

[jake14mw]

I think within the EV market, the MME is selling pretty well. So, I think the real question is, why is the EV market not bigger? I think when Teslas began to sell so well, people mistook the market for Teslas as the market for EVs. Teslas sold so well because they were really cool, hi-tech, sexy cars.

Why are EVs not selling better? Here are my thoughts in order of importance roughly - 1) 30% of people won't buy an EV because their political side says they're terrible. They don't want to hear it from their friends even if they like them. 2) 25% of people won't buy an EV because they simply see nothing wrong with their gas vehicles and they are generally resistant to change. They see no compelling reason to want to change (especially at a premium in price) 3) 15% of people are interested in an EV, looked into it, but made a judgement that an EV is just not the best choice for their driving situation. 4) 10% of people are interested in EVs but are swayed against it by misinformation that they have seen/read/been told. 5) 10% of people are interested in EVs, but won't even consider one because of the high sticker prices. 6) 10% of people buy an EV.

Of course many of these reasons overlap, especially the high cost one. And I just threw the percentages out there, there are of course other reasons as well that I don't cover.

 

[zvez]

Check what I wrote... The LVB (12V battery) seems to have a lifespan of 3 years based on what I have read on this Forum.

not sure how I Misread it as an lfp, that said, the three year replacement is anecdotal. Some people are replacing in an abundance of caution and I get that.

 

[Dear_OP]

MME is not the only EV experiencing LVB issues. Hyundai/Kia EVs too. Hyundai claimed it was due to the constant connection of its vehicles' apps that drained the LVB. Told customers to stop using apps and 3rd party accessories.

Tesla wasn't immune to this either. However they have been installing LiON 12V batteries in their recent Models. Think other mfg should follow suit or atleast use AGM batteries.

 

[Jim_In_Mass]

Many of us in this forum, particularly those who bought early, did not buy because of conventional marketing. We wanted it when it was announced. FWIW, if my '21 Mach-E were totaled tomorrow, I'd likely buy another one. I guess the question for Ford and its dealers is to reach people who don't already know they want it... My hunch is that sales staff would do well to sit in on a community college class on electronics and learn about Ohm's law, power, and energy. But I'm biased.

I'll respectfully disagree - having the sales staff sit in on a circuits course isn't going to help sell EVs.
What will sell EVs is discussing the customers needs - the use case - and making an argument for any of the vehicles on the lot that meet those needs.
My hunch is that the sales staff and the customers would be motivated by logic - but, then, I'm biased....

 

[Sandpiper]

Many EV have this problem. I get that most automotive electronics are 12V DC, but it's hard to understand with a 70 to 90 kWh battery sitting in the vehicle, the low voltage system battery goes flat powering sleeping computer modules. Either the modules should be completely turned off, or the giant 400V - 800V kW battery keeps the low voltage side charged. Piss ass engineering.

Its not "piss ass engineering" when all the other EVs do the same thing, namely have a low voltage battery. You wouldnt want the HVB to be constantly draining. There is an engineering reason why all EVs have a LVB.

 

[dbsb3233]

Its not "piss ass engineering" when all the other EVs do the same thing, namely have a low voltage battery. You wouldnt want the HVB to be constantly draining. There is an engineering reason why all EVs have a LVB.

It doesn't need to be constantly draining, although there's really nothing wrong with that either when the drain is so tiny. A 12v car battery has a capacity of less than 1 kWh. A typical trickle charge to top it up should only take a few hundred Wh.

What it seems like it should be doing is just waking up maybe every 12 hours to check the LVB and if it's low, start a trickle charge. Unless the HVB is below a certain threshold (like 20% or something).

 

[Sandpiper]

It doesn't need to be constantly draining, although there's really nothing wrong with that either when the drain is so tiny. A 12v car battery has a capacity of less than 1 kWh. A typical trickle charge to top it up should only take a few hundred Wh.

What it seems like it should be doing is just waking up maybe every 12 hours to check the LVB and if it's low, start a trickle charge. Unless the HVB is below a certain threshold (like 20% or something).

It actually does that. If the LVB voltage is low it will top up from HVB.

 

[Mach1E]

Do you really think EV's catch on fire at the same rate as ICE cars?

lots of other independent sources that all say the same thing... ICE cars catch fire at a much higher rate than EVs.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/my...s-are-electric-cars-susceptible-catching-fire

The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...uilty-of-excess-short-term-fire-risk-charges/

“The overall arching takeaway (from the data) is that the rate of fires happening is less for EVs than petrol or diesel cars, and quite substantially,” said James Edmondson, Research Director at Cambridge, England-based independent researcher IDTechEx in an interview.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11/ev-fires-less-likely-than-ice-vehicle-fires-research-finds/

Lastly, it appears that the leading cause of EV fires is arson.

So you posted completely false data and then in response just move on to completely different country?

Can you stop first and admit that the data you posted was completely false?

Then let’s move on together to find a better source, if it exists.

As far as I’ve seen, the available data online is somewhere between completely fabricated (what you initially posted) and sparse (what you’re posting now).

We don’t have good enough data to draw conclusions. But at the very least we have anecdotal evidence from firefighters that “it’s a real problem.”

Edit- I finished reading that Forbes article and it’s quoting the SAME false data you posted earlier. ?

“ A report from AutoinsuranceEX said EVs exhibited 61 times fewer fires per 100,000 sales than ICE vehicles.”

That is the FABRICATED report!!

 

[dbsb3233]

It actually does that. If the LVB voltage is low it will top up from HVB.

Yeah I think one of the last Mach-E OTAs (about a year ago) was supposed to finally do something like that. Not entirely sure if it really does though. Might only be if there's a new OTA incoming?

 

[Mach1E]

You misunderstood my comment. I don't think using a low voltage system is piss ass engineering. I think not keeping the LVB adequately charged so it dies in 3 years or becomes questionable in 3 years is piss ass engineering. The reason there is a 12V system in the car is because the auto industry uses tested and qualified automotive electronics that for decades have run on a 12V architecture. I don't have an issue with the low voltage system being 12V. Using a 35 amp-hour battery and not keeping it properly charged is the piss ass engineering.

Tesla's Cybertruck introduced a 48V architecture, hopefully that catches on and the 48V battery is maintained better.

There has to be a happy medium on keeping the 12v charged.

Why not always keep it fully charged? Because when your 12v is actually going bad it would be a huge drain on your HVB, but you wouldn’t necessarily know why.

 

[dbsb3233]

There has to be a happy medium on keeping the 12v charged.

Why not always keep it fully charged? Because when your 12v is actually going bad it would be a huge drain on your HVB, but you wouldn’t necessarily know why.

That should be a pretty simple software addition to trigger a dash warning if it's doing excessive LVB charging.

 

[SonicBlue]

They connect you with a local service department.

It does streamline the process a bit.

The “EV team” can’t fix your car. The local dealer can.

Yes, DM’s sent to @Ford Motor Company go to an EV team. But I don’t think the posts by @Ford Motor Company are made by a real person. I think it is an AI bot. They are too random, too stupid, and too cut&paste to be by a real person.

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