2025 Upgraders: Do You Miss The Dial Shifter?

[superdave80]

I've actually grown to like the dial shifter, I just wish it was a bit more forwarded. I have to

So, everyone else has to give up a nice feature and Ford has to redesign the car for this very rare situation, which is something that MIGHT cause one person to spend a bit of money?

Nice? It's a terrible feature. The fact that it causes another issue (no way to open without power) is besides the point. I'm tired of having to repeatedly press the button and wondering if my door will open or not. It was a dumb design decision, and it will continue to be a dumb design decision. Door handles are superior in every way.

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[superdave80]

On a personal note, I would argue that meeting condition 1 above warrants at least a brief conversation with the local child protective services people.

You would lose that argument.

 

[garyd9]

Um, unless the car is locked (electric locks, remember). Then you’ll be pulling on that handle all day long until some kind stranger offers you a brick ?

Remember, the conditions under which you have a dying baby trapped in the safety hazard that is the Mustang Mach-E are:
1. Child is left alone in the car unattended
2. All car windows are completely closed
3. 12V battery is allowed to drain
4. Car is locked (either deliberately or via “walk-away lock”).

On a personal note, I would argue that meeting condition 1 above warrants at least a brief conversation with the local child protective services people. Of course, I don’t have children, so what do I know? ?‍

Wasn't there an issue at least on the 23's where the door locks (or open buttons) failed to work even though the 12v battery wasn't discharged? If I remember correctly, people couldn't open their doors from the outside at all, and only the front doors could be opened from the inside (because the inside levers/handles have a mechanical aspect when pulled all the way back.)

PAAK and the fob also would fail. From the outside, the only way to get into the car was to somehow drain the 12v battery enough that the frunk override would work, then disconnect the battery to reset the car computers... and then get a charge back to the 12v battery. Or to break a window. The reigning theory was that something was scrambling the communication between modules in the car.

I don't know if that issue was ever really fixed (because I'm not sure if Ford ever actually figured out what was going wrong.) (I don't recall seeing any new reports of the issue in the last few months or so, however. That might mean that Ford has silently fixed the issue - or that their legal department has encouraged people to shut up about it.)

Anyway, In that case, the dying baby scenario might only be: Your baby is in a baby seat in the back. You get out of the driver's seat and close the door. You immediately turn around and try to open the rear door to get your baby, but the car glitched and you can't open the door...

(At this point, any reasonable parent will start to panic.)

 

[Jimrpa]

You would lose that argument.

As I said, I don’t have children, so what would I know? ?‍

it does seem to me that leaving a small child / infant alone in a locked vehicle with all of the windows closed, might, just possibly, not be a great decision? ?‍

 

[Jimrpa]

Wasn't there an issue at least on the 23's where the door locks (or open buttons) failed to work even though the 12v battery wasn't discharged? If I remember correctly, people couldn't open their doors from the outside at all, and only the front doors could be opened from the inside (because the inside levers/handles have a mechanical aspect when pulled all the way back.)

PAAK and the fob also would fail. From the outside, the only way to get into the car was to somehow drain the 12v battery enough that the frunk override would work, then disconnect the battery to reset the car computers... and then get a charge back to the 12v battery. Or to break a window. The reigning theory was that something was scrambling the communication between modules in the car.

I don't know if that issue was ever really fixed (because I'm not sure if Ford ever actually figured out what was going wrong.) (I don't recall seeing any new reports of the issue in the last few months or so, however. That might mean that Ford has silently fixed the issue - or that their legal department has encouraged people to shut up about it.)

Anyway, In that case, the dying baby scenario might only be: Your baby is in a baby seat in the back. You get out of the driver's seat and close the door. You immediately turn around and try to open the rear door to get your baby, but the car glitched and you can't open the door...

(At this point, any reasonable parent will start to panic.)

So, again, let’s suppose ford put mechanical door handles on the vehicle. Your scenario supposes the doors are locked when the driver closes their door (which doesn’t happen, but lets go with it). In that scenario, you’re pulling and pulling and pulling on the locked mechanical door handle until my hypothetical Good Samaritan happens by with a brick.
Electric door failure is annoying. I suspect it’s also pretty rare. If it’s truly the life-threatening feature people claim, then why are more manufacturers, such as Tesla and GM implementing it?

 

[garyd9]

So, again, let’s suppose ford put mechanical door handles on the vehicle. Your scenario supposes the doors are locked when the driver closes their door ...

No, it's not supposing any such thing. It was never demonstrated that doors were locked in the 2023 issue I described. The door BUTTON would stop functioning, as well as the backseat inside levers (which are only electrical, not mechanical.)

In this case, if the door wasn't locked, a mechanical handle on the outside of the car would absolutely help. In fact, people were using strings and ropes to pull one of the front door inside handles (which work mechanically if pulled all the way back) as a way to get around the potential problem.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Here's the "overloaded" stalk everyone is talking about. While I wish they left the rear wiper control as a switch on the end, I understand how using the turn signal could accidently activate the switch. This way it's at least assured you intend to use it since you have to turn the dial.

I also leave my wipers and brights on AUTO since the MachE is pretty good at brights and rain detection, so for me this will almost exclusively be used for signals and the occasional rear wipe.

That said, I can see people accidently turning on their wipers for "flash to pass" or brights since you're pushing it forward (or backward). I'm curious if anyone knows of vehicles that put wiper controls somewhere other than the stalk, except for Tesla which I assume is on the screen.

Our 2020 Raptor has this convoluted all-in-one stalk. I actively avoid driving it if its raining or looks like rain.

 

[Jimrpa]

So, everyone else has to give up a nice feature and Ford has to redesign the car for this very rare situation, which is something that MIGHT cause one person to spend a bit of money?

But more to the point I was making the people that want this changed are calling it a safety issue so that they can get their way. I see no safety issue here. Yes, in the very rare case someone might have to pay for a window.

I would consider the shift dial more of a "safety issue", but even there you are talking about all the undisciplined kid can do it shift the car into neutral. To that I say it is a real shame that we have to deal with the idiot parents and kids in this world.

Let's face it, if you let all the people design your car by what they don't like, then every car becomes as featureless hunk of metal. There are always going to be few people that don't like any given feature.

If the car is not locked, then the doors can be opened a limited number of times via the capacitors/supercapacitors, as has been repeatedly explained.

 

[garyd9]

If the car is not locked, then the doors can be opened a limited number of times via the capacitors/supercapacitors, as has been repeatedly explained.

This is true... iff the only "malfunction" is that the 12v battery is dead.

 

[ChrisO]

This is true... iff the only "malfunction" is that the 12v battery is dead.

Exactly!

So, let's go to example someone used above, a kid locked in the car.

You must have a kid in the back seat that can't get out of that seat and open the front door. You have to have a parent that ignored the warning that their kid is in that back seat when they left the car. You must have a situation where all of that happened and the 12v battery is dead. And you have to have a situation where the supercapacitors somehow don't allow you to open the door.

And you still have the option of breaking the window. Yes, it will cost money, but that's what you do in a true emergency.

If that isn't "stretch" for an example of a "safety issue" I don't know what is.

 

[garyd9]

Exactly!

So, let's go to example someone used above, a kid locked in the car.

You must have a kid in the back seat that can't get out of that seat and open the front door. You have to have a parent that ignored the warning that their kid is in that back seat when they left the car. You must have a situation where all of that happened and the 12v battery is dead. And you have to have a situation where the supercapacitors somehow don't allow you to open the door.

And you still have the option of breaking the window. Yes, it will cost money, but that's what you do in a true emergency.

If that isn't "stretch" for an example of a "safety issue" I don't know what is.

Actually, if you search the forums for one of the examples of the 2023 malfunction I referenced, there's a case where there were young children in the backseat. The car battery wasn't dead. The parent DID NOT ignore their kids. They were trying to get their kid out of the back seat, but the rear door wouldn't open.

The result of that was that they called the fire department and the fire department ended up breaking a window to get the kids out.

This wasn't an inattentive parent. This wasn't a dead battery. This was (as far as anyone can tell) just a car's computer system malfunctioning and there not being any manual override.

 

[ChrisO]

Actually, if you search the forums for one of the examples of the 2023 malfunction I referenced, there's a case where there were young children in the backseat. The car battery wasn't dead. The parent DID NOT ignore their kids. They were trying to get their kid out of the back seat, but the rear door wouldn't open.

The result of that was that they called the fire department and the fire department ended up breaking a window to get the kids out.

This wasn't an inattentive parent. This wasn't a dead battery. This was (as far as anyone can tell) just a car's computer system malfunctioning and there not being any manual override.

And how many of such cases are we talking about?

 

[markboris]

Actually, if you search the forums for one of the examples of the 2023 malfunction I referenced, there's a case where there were young children in the backseat. The car battery wasn't dead. The parent DID NOT ignore their kids. They were trying to get their kid out of the back seat, but the rear door wouldn't open.

The result of that was that they called the fire department and the fire department ended up breaking a window to get the kids out.

This wasn't an inattentive parent. This wasn't a dead battery. This was (as far as anyone can tell) just a car's computer system malfunctioning and there not being any manual override.

I want to make the distinction again that the car was LOCKED and that is why the doors would not open. She had gotten out of her door and when it closed, the car locked (for whatever reason). Because the battery was low or dead, the doors would not unlock. If the doors were unlocked, they would have opened even though they were closed. I agree and understand this is an issue but people her are saying the door just won't open when the batter is dead. No, the door won't open if the car is locked.

 

[markboris]

And how many of such cases are we talking about?

I have only read of one case of this happening with an infant inside that the window had to be broken. There may be more but not that I have read.

 

[Space_Pony]

Kind of makes you wonder why somebody would lock their kid(s) in the car.

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