Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real

[JamieGeek]

For those here that are new to EVs.....I think I would recommend against taking a road trip in your MME right away. Get used to the car first, drive it around your area and gradually venture out further and further. After a few weeks and you are feeling comfortable then go for it. Ask questions and those here that are road trip experts will help us avoid common assumptions that can lead to unpleasant experiences. It's just a different way of life and one that is very hard to understand until you live it. I do think it is worth it though. I doubt I will ever buy an ICE vehicle again. ?

Looks around, quietly deletes 10,000 mile roadtrip in A Better Route Planner. Oh wait, I've had two EV's...???

Leg one 846 miles here we go....

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[ChasingCoral]

This is likely because he got a test car from Ford that already had it setup.

This was most likely the case for all of Ford's engineers testing them. They were probably issued cars and phones to use for the testing. We need to figure out how to get OUR phones, OUR cars, and OUR EA Pass+ accounts (if we need them) all communicating through FordPass to yield functional P&C with the Pass+ discount.

I hope @wareagle1440 is wrong and we do get the discounted rate as part of FordPass but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[wareagle1440]

This was most likely the case for all of Ford's engineers testing them. They were probably issued cars and phones to use for the testing. We need to figure out how to get OUR phones, OUR cars, and OUR EA Pass+ accounts (if we need them) all communicating through FordPass to yield functional P&C with the Pass+ discount.

I hope @wareagle1440 is wrong and we do get the discounted rate as part of FordPass but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has called electrify america to ask these questions? There are a lot of posts, so I could've missed, but I don't recall anyone mentioning that?

 

[trutolife27]

Each day, the tech is moving so fast. 5 years from now there will be a lot more BEV on the road. The info structure has to keep up. We don't want people at chargers waiting hours like the gas crisis back in the day.
Look at one of our great forum members. He could tell you the horror he had to endure.

 

[Dan G]

+1

Being a BEV newbie, my brain is exploding. In fact, I've made the decision that one of the first things I am going to do if / when (sorry, it's been delayed so long have to include the if .. hehe) I finally get my Mach I is take a road trip. I think maybe the only way to learn is to try it out.

For those here that are new to EVs.....I think I would recommend against taking a road trip in your MME right away. Get used to the car first, drive it around your area and gradually venture out further and further. After a few weeks and you are feeling comfortable then go for it. Ask questions and those here that are road trip experts will help us avoid common assumptions that can lead to unpleasant experiences. It's just a different way of life and one that is very hard to understand until you live it. I do think it is worth it though. I doubt I will ever buy an ICE vehicle again. ?

I whole heartily agree. It may sound weird, but make a charger your destination. Drive an hour or two to a charger, charge and drive home. Do it on a nice sunny day. Do it in the rain. Do it on a windy day. Then you'll start to notice that you'll be comfortable leaving with 70% battery vs 80%. You'll get more comfortable with a 20% SOC. And then take it out overnight somewhere.

I think jumping in feet first might be a bit of a shock. Especially if you want to be arriving everywhere with 20-25% battery.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Exactly, and I have rambled about this before, but these legislative actions have been prompted in several states by ALEC, and they get a great deal of funding from fossil fuel energy companies.

I would MUCH rather see a mileage rate set. Make it the same for ICE and BEV at registration. Right now we get screwed not only because of low mileage on my wife's car, but it is a PHEV, that burns some gas too where we pay the gas tax on top of the $200 additional registration fee. They charge that same $200 for a BEV and a PHEV. My wife only drove about 8,000 miles last year total. At a conservative 25mpg of gas, you would have to drive 13,000 miles in a gas car before you paid $200 in gas tax for roads.

I agree but I wouldn't mind a higher registration plus a mileage-based rate, as long as the base registration-based portion doesn't assume too much driving. Including the first 5000 miles in the registration and charging per mile beyond that would be fine.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Yep, well-known issue with all fixed-rate car registrations.

The problem with tracking mileage, of course is the implementation. How to prevent cheating, how to charge all drivers (not just those that live locally), privacy issues if tracking by GPS, administative cost, etc.

The pass-through drivers will mostly be using DCFC. You can apply a tax there.

 

[ChasingCoral]

If driving an EV turns a drive from one day to two, you should not be making that drive in an EV. You're going to spend $50k to end up with a much worse experience? Drive the escape, or rent an ice. It just doesn't make sense yet.

Maybe not to you but I care about the impact my driving has on the environment. Besides, it's generally safer to drive shorter distances each day rather than driving over-tired to push through to the destination.

 

[ChasingCoral]

For chargers at hotel/motel on Plugshare I believe users should list them when they find one that is not listed has Plugshare is a community of users, I don't think they appear automatically especially when they are private chargers.

ABRP now has an option to show the amenities at charging stops.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has called electrify america to ask these questions? There are a lot of posts, so I could've missed, but I don't recall anyone mentioning that?

I'm not aware of anyone on this Forum talking to either EA or Ford directly on this. Go for it!

 

[ChasingCoral]

Catching up on this thread -- whew!

Sometimes the next charger is more than 80% range away. With CCS there are enough deserts of charging where you will need to go to 100% (or at least past 80%) at a DCFC to get to the next one. That's the only reason the 80% cliff bothers me.

This is why the 80% wall concerns me. It will be an unusual case but until we have more chargers it will happen. I don't mind ramping down in the last 20% but L2 speeds seem ridiculous.

Same issue here, but sweet Jesus was Electrify America expensive! I used a ChargePoint DCFC and it was like 5 bucks. Not as fast, but still

I see this as the other way around. At non-member rates, EA is comparable to the cost of gas, depending on the state/gas price. At Pass+ rates its a bit cheaper. This ChargePoint example is dirt cheap. If I did my math right, it's < 14¢ per kWh. I pay 11¢ at home and can only charge at L2 speeds!

If a FordPass subscription doesn't give us the preferred EA rate, I hope it at least integrates P&C properly with our EA Pass+ subscriptions at the preferred rate (should we choose to do so). Otherwise FordPass looks like it will be just short of worthless.

This!

So here we have 50kw 100kw and 150kw chargers. For the small amount of time that the car reaches 150, would it make more sense to go to a 50 or 100kw charger pay less but get a more linear curve or would the curve be the same for the slower chargers? In other words if you go to a 50kw would it stay at 50kw or would you end up at like 33kw

The practicality also depends on if you are in a state that charges by time and has rates that vary by charging speed. If a 100 kW charger is cheaper than a 150 kW charger, you might as well use the 100 as most of the Mach E charging seems to be around 100 kW.

 

[Woeo]

Is it me, or is that just really expensive electricity?!...

DC Fast Charging is roughly as expensive per mile as gas [currently] is for a moderately efficient ICE vehicle.

Is that expensive?

Only when compared to charging at home which can be 50% to 90% less.

 

[wareagle1440]

I'm not aware of anyone on this Forum talking to either EA or Ford directly on this. Go for it!

So I called and spoke to rep from Electrify America. I asked specifically if the FordPass app gave us access to the 31 cents per Kwh rate or the 43 cents per kwh rate, and also some f/u questions. So here is what I learned:

1. We all know you get the 250 kwh of free charge time.

2. After that is used up, FordPass/MME users are billed at the 43 cents kwh rate unless you have the pass plus membership

3. Something new I learned and she was unsure about is that we might have to use the EA app after the 250 kwh are used up. She stated in the past when they've done something similar to this, the user needs to switch to the EA app after the free hours are used up. I asked if that would be the same considering FordPass has a wallet option to store payment and she said she did not know. I asked her to please refer this to their feedback team as there are literally thousands of MME owners curious about his question and there hasn't been a lot of information coming from either Ford or EA.

4. If you want the lower rate of 31 cent kwh, sign up for the EA pass plus membership.

In summary, the FordPass app merely grants access and plug and charge for EA. However it might only do that for the 250 kwh provided by Ford, at which point we might have to use the EA app as this is what has happened in the past. I asked for clarification on this last part and hopefully we will know something in the near future. Obviously all of this is subject to change but this is what the EA rep on their customer service number told me.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Each day, the tech is moving so fast. 5 years from now there will be a lot more BEV on the road. The info structure has to keep up. We don't want people at chargers waiting hours like the gas crisis back in the day.
Look at one of our great forum members. He could tell you the horror he had to endure.

I am too young to remember that. Not too young to remember advertisements proud about 12% auto loans or Lee Iacocca saying "if you can find a better car at any price, buy it", but too young to remember the gas crisis.

 

[Woeo]

This is why the 80% wall concerns me. It will be an unusual case but until we have more chargers it will happen. I don't mind ramping down in the last 20% but L2 speeds seem ridiculous.

Following @OutofSpecKyle on the OutofSpec YouTube channel highlights the concern we all should have for this 80% cliff.

Kyle chronicles his cross-country travels with various Tesla models using the SuperCharger network and typically his 'stay low in the battery pack' strategy works well to reduce the time spent charging on the road. However there are times on those trips when SuperCharger distribution, weather, or other factors have necessitated his charging above 80%.

There will be times when most owners will be in similar circumstances. Unless an OTA changes this Ford is selling a false promise of usability.

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