Adventureboy

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It's kind of like strapping a slice of bread with peanut butter on it to the back of a car. Since cats always land on their feet and the bread always falls peanut butter side-down, the cat will never touch the floor. ??
Given the context, this is the funniest typo ever mistyped on this forum
I thought maybe strapping a slice of bread with peanut butter on the top of the car would result in an inverted car and the peanut butter on the asphalt. :crazy:
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jsus

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I'm not going to blame Ford on this, as they aren't the only ones with this limitation, but I do wonder why car companies seem to have stopped offering good ol' manual keyhole backups for opening locked doors. I mean, sure, I do love the proximity unlock offered by wireless fobs and PAAK, but having the ability to pop an "emergency key" out of the fob if the fob's or car's battery was dead would be a nice feature. (I honestly had to do this with a Dodge Charger I rented a few months back...).
2020+ Escape Hybrid and 2022+ Maverick Hybrid have known issues with their undersized 12V batteries dying prematurely. I've had my Escape's 12V battery die on me. But in that case, I can pull the physical key blade out of the fob and open the driver door. Pop the hood, reach back to the interior rear driver side door handle, pull twice to open. Fold down the back seat, retrieve my lithium ion jump box. Take that under the hood, hook it up to the two jump points. And the vehicle starts right up, only takes a minute or two.

If I'm not able to immediately start the vehicle, the door locks can be actuated by hand, so the vehicle is locked when unattended.

The main difference? It actually has a physical key and lock mechanism. Pulling on an interior door handle mechanically unlocks it, so it stays unlocked. It still has power locks, of course.
 

jsus

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How will a software change solve this?
Doors won't lock on low 12v battery?
Car won't operate on low 12v battery?
Main battery will operate the door locks?
The software will buy you 12 minutes to unlock all doors after you turn off the car.

After that, to lock/unlock the doors, or to start the car, you'll need to jump it, same as today.

The recall only addresses a very specific scenario. The vehicle is running but the 12V battery is actually dead. You turn off the vehicle, now your electronic door locks have no power. You open your driver door to get out, you close it. You go to open a door but find that they're all locked. You cannot get back in the car, but need to get your elderly relative, child, pet, laptop, whatever it is, out of the car. The only two options are to jump it, or to break a window.

The recall addresses this by buying you 12 minutes to unlock the doors after you turn off the car.

It does not address any other concerns with the door lock/latch/release mechanisms.
 

phil

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Pretty lame...
Yes. Seems to me it would be easy enough to include notification that the 12v is dead and you only have 12 minutes. Driver could then leave a door unlocked or a window open if desired.
 

jsus

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Yes. Seems to me it would be easy enough to include notification that the 12v is dead and you only have 12 minutes. Driver could then leave a door unlocked or a window open if desired.
The problem is that it does not appear the vehicle is detecting when the 12V battery is dead and initiating the 12 minute countdown. Instead, the timer would start every time you turn the car off, regardless of voltage output from the 12V battery.

In theory, they could develop an algorithm to detect this low voltage condition, play a chime, and display messages on the LCDs.
 


E90alex

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I'm not going to blame Ford on this, as they aren't the only ones with this limitation, but I do wonder why car companies seem to have stopped offering good ol' manual keyhole backups for opening locked doors. I mean, sure, I do love the proximity unlock offered by wireless fobs and PAAK, but having the ability to pop an "emergency key" out of the fob if the fob's or car's battery was dead would be a nice feature. (I honestly had to do this with a Dodge Charger I rented a few months back...).
Probably some combination of cost cutting and appearing more modern/advanced.

Blame Tesla for starting this “trend”. But also if you are meant to use a phone key as the primary key, a mechanical backup would likely do you no good out in the wild anyways since most people wouldn’t be carrying a both key fob and a phone key.

The Mach-E is the only legacy manufacturer vehicle I can think of with no mechanical backup key. Every other car with electronic door latches (other than like Tesla/Rivian/Lucid) still have a backup key blade.
 

Ford_orr

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Yes. Seems to me it would be easy enough to include notification that the 12v is dead and you only have 12 minutes. Driver could then leave a door unlocked or a window open if desired.
Funny, I was thinking of editing my post to include that. Yes, something to that effect that once you leave your vehicle and lock it, you will only have 12 minutes to get back in. I think the precise amount of battery left might fluctuate too much to give you an exact amount of energy/time, but maybe there's a power band that could be hit to give you that warning. At worse, even if after 12 minutes, you're still good, at least now you know the battery is in a critical state so get it replaced ASAP.
 

E90alex

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Yes. Seems to me it would be easy enough to include notification that the 12v is dead and you only have 12 minutes. Driver could then leave a door unlocked or a window open if desired.
There’s not really a way to tell the 12V is dead when the car is on and DC-DC is active because then the car just thinks the 12V system is working perfectly fine. It’s not until the DC-DC converter turns off that you can see the symptoms of a dead 12V. At which point all the 12V systems are dead and won’t be able to self report that it’s dead.
 

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I have a Bluetooth app monitoring the 12V battery voltage on my Mach-E, F150, F350, and Porsche

It'll send a notification to the phone if the voltage drops below some threshold. It's when the vehicle(s) AREN'T running, that the data it records/reports is so valuable.

Admittedly I have to launch the app and be within 30-40' of the vehicle. But it's very unlikely that I won't be aware of a battery that is degrading and showing signs of weakness.

It's be great if the manufacturer just leveraged the native vehicle electronics to provide the same information as the $25 aftermarket Bluetooth voltometer does.
 

Star Lord

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The software will buy you 12 minutes to unlock all doors after you turn off the car.

After that, to lock/unlock the doors, or to start the car, you'll need to jump it, same as today.

The recall only addresses a very specific scenario. The vehicle is running but the 12V battery is actually dead. You turn off the vehicle, now your electronic door locks have no power. You open your driver door to get out, you close it. You go to open a door but find that they're all locked. You cannot get back in the car, but need to get your elderly relative, child, pet, laptop, whatever it is, out of the car. The only two options are to jump it, or to break a window.

The recall addresses this by buying you 12 minutes to unlock the doors after you turn off the car.

It does not address any other concerns with the door lock/latch/release mechanisms.
Yes because any other solution would require a hard key override. This reminds me of the early reviews of Tesla. An automotive reviewer drove his Model S to a restaurant in California in the desert. When he finished his dinner he couldn't get back in to the car. He parked next to a high tension pole and the EMF was blocking the signal from his phone or his fob. I can't remember which. He had to call Tesla support and tow the car away.

Difference between Ford and Tesla is you know Elon fixed it probably right away while Ford just let it go till somebody noticed. Like in this case the NHTSB.
 

Mach-Lee

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I have a couple points:
  • I'm expecting the recall fix to also be released OTA, just like the prior HVBJB recall. So most people won't have to go in for it.
  • Keeping the 12V powered for 12 minutes post shutdown is a good thing in general for the 12V battery. But you could still get a failure while your vehicle is parked after the 12V system has shut down.
  • To further reduce the risk of sudden 12V failure, Ford has enabled the check 12V battery notification on the Mach-E so you'll know when your 12V battery is starting to go bad.
The above actions will make a vehicle entrapment situation exceptionally rare.
 

E90alex

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I have a Bluetooth app monitoring the 12V battery voltage on my Mach-E, F150, F350, and Porsche

It'll send a notification to the phone if the voltage drops below some threshold. It's when the vehicle(s) AREN'T running, that the data it records/reports is so valuable.

Admittedly I have to launch the app and be within 30-40' of the vehicle. But it's very unlikely that I won't be aware of a battery that is degrading and showing signs of weakness.

It's be great if the manufacturer just leveraged the native vehicle electronics to provide the same information as the $25 aftermarket Bluetooth voltometer does.
The car does monitor 12V voltage and as Mach-Lee pointed out, the app should be updated soon to provide more 12V warnings if it detects abnormal readings.

But voltage is just one aspect of battery health. Voltage can read fine even if the battery is bad. Lead acids are pretty primitive and “dumb” so it’s hard to get a true assessment of health status without doing an external load test. They can and will die without any prior warning.
 

HuntingPudel

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In your situation in the garage, the doors would remain unlocked and should be able to be opened via the super capacitors.
<SNIP>
this is not exactly true. The car has a door lock nanny that automatically locks the doors when the car starts moving. The doors do not unlock until you either manually unlock them or they unlock when a door lever is actuated (which is why people have to expressly unlock the doors so their kids can get in when being picked up from school). If the 12V battery has already gone kaput before the door lever is actuated, the door module retains a lock status. ??

What’s worse for me is that my car (both the 2021 and the 2024, actually) sometimes locks the doors after I close the driver’s door and before I can get to the passenger door. This is unlikely to happen in the event of a 12V failure though, since I believe something in the car is locking the doors electronically. ?‍♂?
 

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This was a known issue in early 2021 when it was reported that a women had her child locked in the car. Long time to finally push them to do something. Like the HVJB and the melting charging port Ford for the third time thinks they can fix defective hardware with software. Third time is the charm maybe they can actually fix it with software and not screw their costumers this time like they did for the first two. Holding breath now.
 

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