12V Battery Dead 2x in 6 Days and Ridiculous Battery Placement

[generaltso]

Similar problem here (well, getting notices from FordPass; my car is in for service) and I know it's locked in a parking lot awaiting the windshield recall.

There should be no legitimate reason that a car sitting for 2 days should have its 12V battery drained. Unless the battery fix was never applied (but I assume I'd see that in FDRS.)

I will forward this to my dealer and maybe they can get it worked out before I get the car back.

Unfortunately, this message is normal and doesn’t necessarily indicate anything is wrong with the LVB. It seems to be generated any time the DC/DC converter kicks on to charge the LVB while the car is parked and off plug. Ford really needs to change the verbiage of the alert.

 

[KevinS]

Unfortunately, this message is normal and doesn’t necessarily indicate anything is wrong with the LVB. It seems to be generated any time the DC/DC converter kicks on to charge the LVB while the car is parked and off plug. Ford really needs to change the verbiage of the alert.

Thanks -- yes, that is quite misleading. Especially since it's saying service is required. Who knows how many owners not on this forum are calling dealers about this...

 

[generaltso]

Thanks -- yes, that is quite misleading. Especially since it's saying service is required. Who knows how many owners not on this forum are calling dealers about this...

Probably a lot. And to make matters worse, no DTCs are saved in the car when this "fault" is generated. So a dealer will test the 12V battery, see there are no DTCs and send you on your way. Most dealers may not even report the issue to Ford since they can't replicate it. I'm hoping Ford is getting enough reports of this erroneous fault message that they've already got plans to change it.

 

[fredfaylona_mme]

Probably a lot. And to make matters worse, no DTCs are saved in the car when this "fault" is generated. So a dealer will test the 12V battery, see there are no DTCs and send you on your way. Most dealers may not even report the issue to Ford since they can't replicate it. I'm hoping Ford is getting enough reports of this erroneous fault message that they've already got plans to change it.

Never got this notification in the app.

 

[Billyk24]

agree! and for the love of God why make it hard to jumpstart the car???

Run a trickle charger cable under the trim pieces and thru the or under he grille to plug in your 22v battery every night. Older Ford Escape Hybrid and Cam enerhi vehicles Also had 22v issues sometimes related to a module causing a relay yo be stuck open.

 

[generaltso]

Run a trickle charger cable under the trim pieces and thru the or under he grille to plug in your 22v battery every night. Older Ford Escape Hybrid and Cam enerhi vehicles Also had 22v issues sometimes related to a module causing a relay yo be stuck open.

I thought 22v was a typo, but you typed it twice, so now I'm not sure. Regardless, if the charging system and the 12V battery are functioning properly, there should be no reason to do this.

 

[louibluey]

If the 12V LVB gets very low, the DC/DC converter should come on plugged in or not. Some software updates might help, especially for the older builds. Lately, several people have reported problems with the high voltage junction box in the HV battery enclosure. It seems the HV contactors are in there, and if one or more of those is not closing, that is probably another cause for dead LVB.

A 12V service note on Fordpass might have been a good thing, indicating that MME had to charge the LVB (odd note indicating that it did an LVB charge), short of that, it seems dead LVB is the outcome.

 

[louibluey]

DevSecOps had a great modification for 12 volt battery access points.


https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/guide-better-jump-point-access-battery-access.10976/


And louibluey brought up the possible use of a 50Ah AC Delco battery.


https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...evy-spark-cadillac-battery.12747/#post-311646

Several of us are now running the larger AC Delco 50 Ah battery with no reported problems yet. The problem is that for most of these dead LVB cases, I do not think 35 Ah vs. 50 Ah will make the difference. Loading the LVB (conditions as of yet unknown) and then not sufficiently charging it will probably be the same outcome, probably same dead LVB overnight. Maybe the larger RP Ah rating could get through some marginal cases.

I have observed a number of odd LVB discharge situations, but so far, Louibluey catches it every time and charges the LVB. It seems some MME are not doing that follow on charging. My guess is that bad (failed or defective) batteries are the exception. The problem seems to be that in some cases MME does not do the LVB DC/DC converter charge (software? high voltage junction box problem?, contactor stuck open?), and lets the 12V LVB go flat.

(@dtbaker61 came up with those jump point holes and covers ages ago. I silently thank him every time I use them. Brilliant!)

 

[mkhuffman]

Several of us are now running the larger AC Delco 50 Ah battery with no reported problems yet. The problem is that for most of these dead LVB cases, I do not think 35 Ah vs. 50 Ah will make the difference. Loading the LVB (conditions as of yet unknown) and then not sufficiently charging it will probably be the same outcome, probably same dead LVB overnight. Maybe the larger RP Ah rating could get through some marginal cases.

I have observed a number of odd LVB discharge situations, but so far, Louibluey catches it every time and charges the LVB. It seems some MME are not doing that follow on charging. My guess is that bad (failed or defective) batteries are the exception. The problem seems to be that in some cases MME does not do the LVB DC/DC converter charge (software? high voltage junction box problem?, contactor stuck open?), and lets the 12V LVB go flat.

(@dtbaker61 came up with those jump point holes and covers ages ago. I silently thank him every time I use them. Brilliant!)

I wonder how many batteries where damaged when our cars sat around for a month or more waiting for a chip or whatever, and then had to sit even longer during the 2-4 week shipment time. Two months of sitting cannot be good for the LVB.

Reconditioning the LVB may solve the issue.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-recondition-service-your-12v-battery.11069/

 

[fredfaylona_mme]

Run a trickle charger cable under the trim pieces and thru the or under he grille to plug in your 22v battery every night. Older Ford Escape Hybrid and Cam enerhi vehicles Also had 22v issues sometimes related to a module causing a relay yo be stuck open.

Planning on doing this. I already ordered the Noco Genius 2, altho I am not looking forward to having the frunk lid open with the car parked outs

If the 12V LVB gets very low, the DC/DC converter should come on plugged in or not. Some software updates might help, especially for the older builds. Lately, several people have reported problems with the high voltage junction box in the HV battery enclosure. It seems the HV contactors are in there, and if one or more of those is not closing, that is probably another cause for dead LVB.

A 12V service note on Fordpass might have been a good thing, indicating that MME had to charge the LVB (odd note indicating that it did an LVB charge), short of that, it seems dead LVB is the outcome.

Interestingly enough - i never got any messages on the FordPass app that my LVB voltage is low... but I'm hoping the trip to the dealer this Tuesday for the latest software update will fix this issue, and i will get that notification from the app...

 

[fredfaylona_mme]

And.... here we go again... I got the car back from the dealer on 1/26/22 and 4 days later, car won't start again early in the morning with about 12F outside temp. The dealer applied software update per Notice 21P22 (per dealer notes). The car had to spend an extra night at the dealership as I was told one of the updates appeared to not have been applied so they had to call in to Ford - not sure what the resolution was as the car was released the following day. Yes, it is cold and probably colder overnight - but imagine half of all less than a year old cars in the Northeast having a dead battery every time the temp in the winter goes below 20F overnight?! @Ford Motor Company what is going on? Never have I experienced this with any of my cars - brand new or used. Heck, my 23-year old Boxster is running strong even if i don't drive it for weeks!

 

[mkhuffman]

And.... here we go again... I got the car back from the dealer on 1/26/22 and 4 days later, car won't start again early in the morning with about 12F outside temp. The dealer applied software update per Notice 21P22 (per dealer notes). The car had to spend an extra night at the dealership as I was told one of the updates appeared to not have been applied so they had to call in to Ford - not sure what the resolution was as the car was released the following day. Yes, it is cold and probably colder overnight - but imagine half of all less than a year old cars in the Northeast having a dead battery every time the temp in the winter goes below 20F overnight?! @Ford Motor Company what is going on? Never have I experienced this with any of my cars - brand new or used. Heck, my 23-year old Boxster is running strong even if i don't drive it for weeks!

I don't know if you saw this discussion, https://www.macheforum.com/site/posts/329791/, but the cause for a similar problem was the HVB Junction Box. I am sharing in the event you can help your dealer figure out what is going on. I think your car has a problem and it is not a MME wide issue.

LVB maintenance when unplugged appears to be poor. At least in my car and some others. When plugged in, the LVB is maintained and charged every time it hits 40% SOC. In my test, it got down to 10% when unplugged - the car didn't do anything to save the LVB until I plugged it in. (I did get 12V error messages when I started the car.)

The reason my LVB died is because I was using a OBDII scanner to record LVB SOC, which put a heavy drain on the LVB, killing it. Without a scanner connected I don't have the drain, of course.

So if you have something draining your battery when unplugged, or your LVB is damaged/defective, then I expect you will frequently have a dead battery if left unplugged overnight in the cold. If your battery is good and you have no "parasitic" drain, it should be fine when left out in the cold when unplugged.

 

[fredfaylona_mme]

I don't know if you saw this discussion, https://www.macheforum.com/site/posts/329791/, but the cause for a similar problem was the HVB Junction Box. I am sharing in the event you can help your dealer figure out what is going on. I think your car has a problem and it is not a MME wide issue.

LVB maintenance when unplugged appears to be poor. At least in my car and some others. When plugged in, the LVB is maintained and charged every time it hits 40% SOC. In my test, it got down to 10% when unplugged - the car didn't do anything to save the LVB until I plugged it in. (I did get 12V error messages when I started the car.)

The reason my LVB died is because I was using a OBDII scanner to record LVB SOC, which put a heavy drain on the LVB, killing it. Without a scanner connected I don't have the drain, of course.

So if you have something draining your battery when unplugged, or your LVB is damaged/defective, then I expect you will frequently have a dead battery if left unplugged overnight in the cold. If your battery is good and you have no "parasitic" drain, it should be fine when left out in the cold when unplugged.

Thanks - I did see this and thanks for reminding me. I will provide this info to the dealer.

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