AC Delco 12V MME 50 Ah, Chevy Spark, Cadillac Battery

[louibluey]

Previously, I was asking about the optional second longer setting in our battery tray (accidentally posted to batteries in marketplace).

@kram recently reported that he found that a Chevy Spark AGM battery works in MME. I did some googling, this AC Delco part LN1PS is quite interesting indeed, 50 Ah (compared to our 35 Ah). It looks like it would take advantage of the second battery length position (see numbers by @OWG) that I have been wondering about: Summit Racing, $155, free shipping; Rock Auto $136 + $16 shipping + state tax. I ordered one to add to my 12V LVB study. Note that a different battery size might add complications with our BMS system which expects a 35 Ah battery, not sure, definitely curious to explore.

Detailed Description - Group Size (BCI): LN1; Cold Cranking Amps (CCA): 560 CCA; Voltage (V): 12 Volt; Length (in): 8-1/8 Inch; Width (in): 7 Inch; Height (in): 7-1/2 Inch; ACDelco Gold (Professional) Automotive AGM Batteries are a high quality alternative to Original Equipment (OE) parts. These batteries have high cycling capabilities, are remarkably charge-receptive, and are necessary for 'start/stop' vehicle applications. The Absorbed Glass Mat design is 100% leak and spill proof because the Electrolyte is permanently held in the glass mat separator instead of free flowing within each cell. Oxygen recombination reduces water loss and reassures maintenance-free performance. ACDelco Professional Automotive AGM Batteries have longer life expectancy in traditional vehicle applications, due to a maintained pressure on the plates which significantly reduces the amount of active mass lost from the grid. Wash hands after handling.
High density negative paste, improves performance and increases battery life
Enhanced life alloy/Silver Calcium stamped alloy increases cycle life and improves performance
Calcium Lead positive grid, maximizes conductivity and allows for low resistance
Robust Envelope Separator with puncture-resistant back, allows for increased acid circulation and prevents shorts. Improved acid circulation, helps the battery to remain cool, and extend battery life.
Vent cap design that resists acid leakage
Precision manufactured ribbed case that is 100% pressure tested, helps avoid future leaks and adds strength and rigidity
100% Electrical short tested to minimize early failures
Some ACDelco Gold parts may have formerly appeared as ACDelco Professional
Premium aftermarket replacement part
Manufactured to meet specifications for fit, form, and function for General Motors vehicles as well as most makes and models
Brand Information
ACDelco has a tremendous history that encompasses almost 100 years. With new advances in parts technology, new inventions and innovative ideas, ACDelco holds the highest standards in the industry.

 

[Kevin P]

That is interesting stuff. As for BMS, I would assume the car can only read voltage and current from the battery. Otherwise, it doesn't "know" what is in there. I bet it would work fine (and/or better than the factory battery).

 

[generaltso]

our BMS system which expects a 35 Ah battery

Does it though?

 

[louibluey]

Does it though?

I was just about to mention your past post, most interesting!

So, from what little I have learned about BMS so far (the microcomputer in that small rectangular box on the 12V battery negative terminal), it reports voltage, current, and temperature. It is also said to report soc, and some BMS report coulombs used (not sure if ours does). The BMS reports by a "one wire" LIN bus to the body control module (BCM) which relays the data to other modules via CAN bus. The 12V LVB battery data can be read by scanners, OBDII related software, ForScan, FDRS data log, etc.

Of course if your observation is what MME is really looking for (60Ah), 50 Ah might improve the computer monitoring situation (or, make no difference).

 

[generaltso]

Of course if your observation is what MME is really looking for (60Ah), 50 Ah might improve the computer monitoring situation (or, make no difference).

Yeah, it definitely makes me wonder if the 60Ah setting is the entire reason so many cars are getting erroneous 12V faults with the 35Ah battery.

 

[benk016]

This is the list of options that the setting can be changed to in the BCM

 

[OWG]

This is the list of options that the setting can be changed to in the BCM

Thar is an impressive list. With that list of battery options, what else is the BCM used in?

 

[kltye]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but has anyone tried using a LiFePo4, 12v nominal battery in the car? I believe the charging curve (heh) for LiFePo4 and AGM are similar enough, especially since the MME DC-DC converter seems to mostly want to maintain the AGM SoC, rather than actively charge it, so overcharging won't be a concern.

 

[Kevin P]

Seriously thinking of ordering one from Summit. I love modifying my cars ROFL. Can't leave any of them alone. Of course I occasionally screw something up, like breaking BlueCruise with the FDRS update last week.

 

[breeves002]

This is the list of options that the setting can be changed to in the BCM

Keep in mind this list is not necessarily correct. It is likely completely wrong and old for older vehicles.

 

[Kevin P]

Keep in mind this list is not necessarily correct. It is likely completely wrong and old for older vehicles.

Almost certainly completely wrong, since an H3 Case and an LN1 case appear to be direct fits and neither are even options. With that said, I can't see how having a bigger-reserve LVB would have any negatives, and if my personal theory about how it affects HVB charging settings is correct, it would possibly help. Based on what I see in my GT, after the car charges to target (90% in my case), triggering the welcome lights or otherwise loading the LVB will often cause the car to start charging the HVB battery again, and it then targets HVB = 100% erroneously. I have seen definite behavioral changes in this with the car depending on LVB charge levels. Meaning, after an external charge of the LVB, the target charge "sticks" longer, but eventually will still be lost and the car starts charging to 100% again.

TLDR: it appears that with my car any time the HVB is used to top off the LVB, it begins ignoring the charge settings (it doesn't recognize the Home location) and tries to charge to 100%.

Of course, it could be a faulty SOBDMC module that at least one other has seen.

 

[louibluey]

The LN1AGM 50Ah LVB fits perfectly! There are two captive nuts that need to be slide off the battery tray and moved from the short battery length (our OEM 35 Ah battery) to the longer length battery slots. I took the battery tray out (four bolts) to move them, it might be possible to move them with the tray still installed in MME. The negative battery cable was plenty long enough, no issue there. My BMS cable (two wires to the connector that plugs into the BMS on the negative terminal of the battery) was too short for the now further away negative terminal. Could have just trimmed back some tape at the intersection in the cable run they came from, but I wanted to redo my LIN tap anyway, so just added a short extension.

The new battery has slightly different terminals, a slightly harder metal alloy (maybe some aluminum in it, not sure) compared to the typical lead coated terminals, but the post sizes are the same and fit fine. Like it was made to go in there, so we'll see what happens! Honestly, I've had an itch to fill that extra 1 1/4" of battery space in the back of the battery tray since I first saw it last spring. Hats off to @kram for identifying this higher Ah substitute battery which fits perfectly in our MME battery tray! Time will tell for sure, but this 50Ah LVB looks like a good option. Summit Racing, $155, free shipping - Summit delivered in two days, well packed, FedEx Ground, no damage to the outer box either, pretty impressive.

 

[louibluey]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but has anyone tried using a LiFePo4, 12v nominal battery in the car? I believe the charging curve (heh) for LiFePo4 and AGM are similar enough, especially since the MME DC-DC converter seems to mostly want to maintain the AGM SoC, rather than actively charge it, so overcharging won't be a concern.

Post a suggested model when you find one. The more options, the better!

Considering how scarce MME OEM LVB are, it sure is nice to have this first, possibly better (?) option.

 

[louibluey]

Keep in mind this list is not necessarily correct. It is likely completely wrong and old for older vehicles.

The question is, does it matter? Do the MME modules change how they handle LVB charging (and maintenance, LVB care and feeding in general) based on an input battery size/type?

 

[markboris]

Thanks Joe. I usually always install a better, larger capacity battery in all my vehicles even when they are new. I'm always adding on to and modding the electrical systems and usually overtax my batteries. I am going to order up two of these batteries one for the Premium I sold (to my friend) and one for my GT.

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