12V Battery - Something has to be done!

[Prestige Worldwide]

oohhhhhhhhh, you did it NOW! Had to go and say something like that.....

LMAO was thinking same

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[Mr Breeze]

Here's the problem.

The bumper leads will open the frunk IF THE BATTERY IS DEAD. If the battery is WEAK, they will not.

The 12v power source that is required isn't provided by a lot of jump boxes, so they can't get the frunk open...

Once it's open, they then need to charge the 12v enough to start the vehicle.

I own a Tesla Y and a MME and with the Tesla I just taped a 12 volt battery similar to AA size to to the leads (wires) in a small plastic bag as suggested by Tesla behind the small trap door in the front of the vehicle. If I ever have a dead car I just use the battery against the leads and frunk opens right up. Don’t see why this wouldn’t also work with the MME.

 

[RickMachE]

I own a Tesla Y and a MME and with the Tesla I just taped a 12 volt battery similar to AA size to to the leads (wires) in a small plastic bag as suggested by Tesla behind the small trap door in the front of the vehicle. If I ever have a dead car I just use the battery against the leads and frunk opens right up. Don’t see why this wouldn’t also work with the MME.

Apparently you missed that if the 12v is LOW, but NOT DEAD, you cannot use the leads.

 

[Mr Breeze]

Apparently you missed that if the 12v is LOW, but NOT DEAD, you cannot use the leads.

Guess I didn’t, well damn, what good is that.

 

[Maui]

....but why are EVs having these no-warning 12v battery issues?

I don't know about others but the ICE cars I have had would die in a similar fashion. The only difference is that I could open the door, pop the hood and use a jumper to start the car. In fact, it was so easy to do I did this for several days in a row until the battery story opened and I could replace it.

To me, it dying suddenly is not the issue. The issue is the lack of direct access to the battery when the battery is low or dead.

 

[Jack Roberts]

Just had to replace my 12v battery today. Just over 3.5 years old. Got in the car after a short stop and got all the warnings and couldn’t shift to drive. Turned everything off and let it set for a minute. Then was able to get it to start and get into drive. Luckily the deal was able to replace it today because we’re taking out of town Monday. So glad it failed today instead of on the trip. I was already planning on swapping it when we got back (and I had a little more time) after Christmas.

But if it hadn’t been for this forum. I would have assumed entire car was dying since none of the MANY warning messages said “Your 12v battery is dying”.

I replaced my 12 volt Friday when I had my 36 month service done. It was working fine but wasn’t worth taking a chance. I also had my brake fluid replaced and paid for all of it $417.73 with points.

 

[JJR]

FORD, listen up……….I love all the new improvements planned for 2025; cooled seats, heat pump, more center console space. Etc. But what I continually read in these forums is the overall nightmare that is the MME’s 12V implementation. Everyone lives in fear of the ‘somewhere-around-three-year’ surprise binary failure, which apparently occurs without notice. Even if covered under warranty, your customers shouldn’t be inconvenienced by a total and instant shut down of the entire car, and then the Byzantine means by which it must be corrected by the owner, or towed away back to a Ford dealer. The whole thing in place now for 4 (or is it 5?) model years looks like a last minute Rube-Goldberg solution to an overlooked problem!
Here are some suggestions:

- Change battery chemistry and/or construction to something that doesn’t just go from a ‘1’ to a ‘0’ with no advance warning. Also, these batteries ought to enjoy a 5-7 year lifespan instead of 3 years, just like ‘old fashioned’ lead-acid batteries currently do.
- Provide the means of gaging/viewing its SOC if that’s still necessary after you make some changes. Lead acid batteries in ICE cars usually warn us with slow engine cranking for example, giving us (usually) months worth of heads-up.
- Change the logic by which the HVB wakes up and recharges the LVB. Maybe this is already in place with recent OTA updates?
- Provide a mechanical override cable (like those often found in trunks) that will allow the front hood to be opened without having to ‘jumper’ it open through the front portal. I mean, who carries a 12V supply in their back pocket (because you can’t keep it in a car that can’t be accessed absent 12V power).
- Provide a snap-down lift-up panel under the hood so that it’s easy to access and/or remove the battery without having to dis-assemble 2/3rds of the other plastic panels.

Maybe all this has been suggested already throughout the MME’s first years. If so, why aren’t we hearing about specific changes to address the issue? I’ll shut up when I see some changes that actually do!

BTW…..otherwise I LOVE my MME, which currently is only 5 months old and has only 2,300 miles. It’s been problem free and a total joy to own! I’ll want to stay with it when my lease is up in 2027, but stupid issues like this one will give me pause…..

I know it doesn’t display the LVB SoC, but it does display the altitude. ?

 

[Timelessblur]

I agreed somethings needs to be done about the 12v as I have had mine fail. It was no warning. Car started just fine. Got to my daughter’s day care and boom zero power when I turned the car off. I noticed when I tried to get back into the car.

some changes is

1) a way to get into the car with zero power and say just a key.

2) a way to manually connect with a button the HVB to the DC-DC converter to power the 12v rail to start the car. It gives an emergency override back up but something that should not be used to often.

lastly. Make the 12v a hell of a lot easier to replace and not require taking apart the entire frunk to do it.

 

[exit74chris]

I dodged the very early 12v battery problems some folks had with their not-even-old 2021s and replaced my Mach E with a Genesis GV60 before my '21 Mach E has any age-relayed 12v issues.

6 months into owning the GV60, I came out to a flat 12v battery and a dead vehicle that was over 90% hv soc when I drove it an hour earlier.

Genesis does provide a physical key - not in the fob but in package that could fit in your wallet. (Some folks gripe about it not being integrated into the fob but with paak and face/fingerprint unlock, separate probably makes sense.)

The battery cover can be opened and moved out of the way by hand without removing any fasteners. (Although the manual instructs you to remove one plastic pop faster. I couldn't figure that out but I did "discover" the rotate trick.)

So I guess Genesis did the mitigation part better....but why are EVs having these no-warning 12v battery issues?

There are no DTCs, no messages....

After the first episode, I bought a Bluetooth battery monitor.

The vehicle was even plugged in when this happened!
/QUOTE]

Yes but now you can teeter on the brink of destruction with an ICCU issue. (J/K I hope you never have to deal with that).

I'm sure a lot of these early life 12V failures come from the walk away key and app, since the car is constantly awakened and cycled killing the cells.

My Volvo (that I traded in on the Mach E) actually had a small battery tucked in the fender for the auto start stop and nothing else. Another battery that would just randomly crap out.

 

[carbonizedbrett]

I don't know about others but the ICE cars I have had would die in a similar fashion. The only difference is that I could open the door, pop the hood and use a jumper to start the car. In fact, it was so easy to do I did this for several days in a row until the battery story opened and I could replace it.

To me, it dying suddenly is not the issue. The issue is the lack of direct access to the battery when the battery is low or dead.

Agreed that having an easier jumpstart process is vital.

But I think somebody else mentioned that with ice cars, you often get a bit of an early warning indicator with anemic starts. But all it takes is a cold snap to go from enough to turn over and not.

They have a charge strategy so presumably they're doing some 12v monitoring.

One the the Mach E did better than Genesis was if I forgot to disconnect my vLinker, I'd get an app alert about a battery drain issue.

Even with the my Bluetooth battery monitor I still got surprised when unplugged the GV60 and the powered charge door wasn't closing.

The car seems to go in a strange constant 13v state which is above resting battery voltage but below the ~14.5v charging voltage, had a sharp drop, then a rapid discharge curve to 9v when the monitor stopped reading/recording.

At 11.75v, I think it would safe to send a battery SOS. At that point it's urgent and should be almost zero false alarms.

 

[milepost1]

FORD, listen up……….I love all the new improvements planned for 2025; cooled seats, heat pump, more center console space. Etc. But what I continually read in these forums is the overall nightmare that is the MME’s 12V implementation. Everyone lives in fear of the ‘somewhere-around-three-year’ surprise binary failure, which apparently occurs without notice. Even if covered under warranty, your customers shouldn’t be inconvenienced by a total and instant shut down of the entire car, and then the Byzantine means by which it must be corrected by the owner, or towed away back to a Ford dealer. The whole thing in place now for 4 (or is it 5?) model years looks like a last minute Rube-Goldberg solution to an overlooked problem!
Here are some suggestions:

- Change battery chemistry and/or construction to something that doesn’t just go from a ‘1’ to a ‘0’ with no advance warning. Also, these batteries ought to enjoy a 5-7 year lifespan instead of 3 years, just like ‘old fashioned’ lead-acid batteries currently do.
- Provide the means of gaging/viewing its SOC if that’s still necessary after you make some changes. Lead acid batteries in ICE cars usually warn us with slow engine cranking for example, giving us (usually) months worth of heads-up.
- Change the logic by which the HVB wakes up and recharges the LVB. Maybe this is already in place with recent OTA updates?
- Provide a mechanical override cable (like those often found in trunks) that will allow the front hood to be opened without having to ‘jumper’ it open through the front portal. I mean, who carries a 12V supply in their back pocket (because you can’t keep it in a car that can’t be accessed absent 12V power).
- Provide a snap-down lift-up panel under the hood so that it’s easy to access and/or remove the battery without having to dis-assemble 2/3rds of the other plastic panels.

Maybe all this has been suggested already throughout the MME’s first years. If so, why aren’t we hearing about specific changes to address the issue? I’ll shut up when I see some changes that actually do!

BTW…..otherwise I LOVE my MME, which currently is only 5 months old and has only 2,300 miles. It’s been problem free and a total joy to own! I’ll want to stay with it when my lease is up in 2027, but stupid issues like this one will give me pause…..

What i am wondering, is once car started all 12v systems supplied by HVB through converter. Why isnt there a means to supply 12v from the HVB for emergency start? Especially as a major hassle if dead battery.

FORD, listen up……….I love all the new improvements planned for 2025; cooled seats, heat pump, more center console space. Etc. But what I continually read in these forums is the overall nightmare that is the MME’s 12V implementation. Everyone lives in fear of the ‘somewhere-around-three-year’ surprise binary failure, which apparently occurs without notice. Even if covered under warranty, your customers shouldn’t be inconvenienced by a total and instant shut down of the entire car, and then the Byzantine means by which it must be corrected by the owner, or towed away back to a Ford dealer. The whole thing in place now for 4 (or is it 5?) model years looks like a last minute Rube-Goldberg solution to an overlooked problem!
Here are some suggestions:

- Change battery chemistry and/or construction to something that doesn’t just go from a ‘1’ to a ‘0’ with no advance warning. Also, these batteries ought to enjoy a 5-7 year lifespan instead of 3 years, just like ‘old fashioned’ lead-acid batteries currently do.
- Provide the means of gaging/viewing its SOC if that’s still necessary after you make some changes. Lead acid batteries in ICE cars usually warn us with slow engine cranking for example, giving us (usually) months worth of heads-up.
- Change the logic by which the HVB wakes up and recharges the LVB. Maybe this is already in place with recent OTA updates?
- Provide a mechanical override cable (like those often found in trunks) that will allow the front hood to be opened without having to ‘jumper’ it open through the front portal. I mean, who carries a 12V supply in their back pocket (because you can’t keep it in a car that can’t be accessed absent 12V power).
- Provide a snap-down lift-up panel under the hood so that it’s easy to access and/or remove the battery without having to dis-assemble 2/3rds of the other plastic panels.

Maybe all this has been suggested already throughout the MME’s first years. If so, why aren’t we hearing about specific changes to address the issue? I’ll shut up when I see some changes that actually do!

BTW…..otherwise I LOVE my MME, which currently is only 5 months old and has only 2,300 miles. It’s been problem free and a total joy to own! I’ll want to stay with it when my lease is up in 2027, but stupid issues like this one will give me pause…..

It wouldn't be so bad if you could just jump it. No, you are stuck until you can get a boost to open frunk, then take frunk apart (not even just one panel,) then jump it to open door, then start car. It is better than 2021 fiasco, but there must be a way to make it at least easier. Standing outside waiting for service, I cant even sit in the damn car to wait. We have an HVB with a little power In it. Think it could power the dcdc converter long enough to start car. And if battery not dead enough can't even open hood to get to battery.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's less about EV and more about modern perpetually awake/connected architecture.

You would be amazed how many forums of different make/models have dead 12V threads. It's prevalent.

 

[Art]

FORD, listen up……….I love all the new improvements planned for 2025; cooled seats, heat pump, more center console space. Etc. But what I continually read in these forums is the overall nightmare that is the MME’s 12V implementation. Everyone lives in fear of the ‘somewhere-around-three-year’ surprise binary failure, which apparently occurs without notice. Even if covered under warranty, your customers shouldn’t be inconvenienced by a total and instant shut down of the entire car, and then the Byzantine means by which it must be corrected by the owner, or towed away back to a Ford dealer. The whole thing in place now for 4 (or is it 5?) model years looks like a last minute Rube-Goldberg solution to an overlooked problem!
Here are some suggestions:

- Change battery chemistry and/or construction to something that doesn’t just go from a ‘1’ to a ‘0’ with no advance warning. Also, these batteries ought to enjoy a 5-7 year lifespan instead of 3 years, just like ‘old fashioned’ lead-acid batteries currently do.
- Provide the means of gaging/viewing its SOC if that’s still necessary after you make some changes. Lead acid batteries in ICE cars usually warn us with slow engine cranking for example, giving us (usually) months worth of heads-up.
- Change the logic by which the HVB wakes up and recharges the LVB. Maybe this is already in place with recent OTA updates?
- Provide a mechanical override cable (like those often found in trunks) that will allow the front hood to be opened without having to ‘jumper’ it open through the front portal. I mean, who carries a 12V supply in their back pocket (because you can’t keep it in a car that can’t be accessed absent 12V power).
- Provide a snap-down lift-up panel under the hood so that it’s easy to access and/or remove the battery without having to dis-assemble 2/3rds of the other plastic panels.

Maybe all this has been suggested already throughout the MME’s first years. If so, why aren’t we hearing about specific changes to address the issue? I’ll shut up when I see some changes that actually do!

BTW…..otherwise I LOVE my MME, which currently is only 5 months old and has only 2,300 miles. It’s been problem free and a total joy to own! I’ll want to stay with it when my lease is up in 2027, but stupid issues like this one will give me pause…..

The sad thing about the 12V battery state of charge, is Ford had a good solution and eliminated it because of complaints from owners that didn't access the second page.
We could go to the website and the 12V battery SOC was there on the first page. On a second page was the Main battery SOC.
What a perfect programming solution. First page for ICE users with 12V batter condition and second page for EV owners.
I'm sure that code could be reactivated and save us all from buying equipment to monitor the smaller battery.
I have already bought a $13 monitor that fits into the 12V receptacle in the car. I don't leave it plugged in because of reports of fires.

 

[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
To me, it dying suddenly is not the issue. The issue is the lack of direct access to the battery when the battery is low or dead.

This is exactly the issue. There is no secure way to get into the frunk so that the 12V terminals can be accessed with a nearly-dead 12V battery. ??

 

[doogie63]

The access to the 12v is just dumb. And getting locked out of the car is dumber. I rather have less space in the funk to be able to easily access my 12v. Your at the store and your ice dies. You open the door sit inside your car out of the RAIN and wait for someone to come and jump you. They come pop the hood and connect the cables and off you go. Mach-E you come out find car dead. Stand in the rain waiting for someone. Once there they help pop the hood. Then you start popping of panels. Dropping a few clips but to busy to find them. Doing all this while wet and your friend laughing at you for buying an EV. Telling you how easy it is to get to his battery. Final get car started and put panels back on. You then get back in your car all wet and pissed off you had no warning your battery was about to die. Next day you order a new battery which was out of stock. Final comes and you spend next couple of hours removing your old battery and trying to work it out of the tight spot that it fits in. Then you finally wiggle the new battery into place. Now you finally ready to drive your car. But wait now your PAAK stop working because of a phone update. Final you give up and call Uber to the bar to forget all your troubles over a bad Mach-E design. Lol

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