2023 Mark Ups have begun

[moparguy]

MSRP on my 2023 Premium extended range AWD is $68370.

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[mjs020294]

Under the old tax credit scheme there was very little chance that Ford would be eligible for the full value of the credit in the first quarter of 2023. They were already at 188K vehicles at the end of Q2, and with sales of 29K in Q2, pretty much guaranteed to hit 200K in Q3 (which they did in August of 2022).

Are those numbers US sales? According to this site the sales numbers for Q2 were 13,498.

https://fordauthority.com/2022/10/f...mbers-figures-results-second-quarter-2022-q2/

 

[Hammered]

So many great deals on used ones, why waste the $ on a new one? Find a gold cert'd one and the warranty is 4/48k

 

[devmach-e]

Are those numbers US sales? According to this site the sales numbers for Q2 were 13,498.

https://fordauthority.com/2022/10/f...mbers-figures-results-second-quarter-2022-q2/

Yes, US sales. Cumulative qualifying EV sales since 2009 for Ford was 188,596 through Q2 of 2022, according to the IRS:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales
That means that Ford only had to sell 11,404 qualifying EVs in Q3. In July, they did 4970 Mach-Es, 2173 F-150 Lightnings, and 526 E-transit vans, for a total of 7669, leaving less than 3800 vehicles. In August, they blew past that by selling 3120 Mach-Es, 2373 Lightnings, and 404 E-Transits.

 

[astrorob]

Yes, US sales. Cumulative qualifying EV sales since 2009 for Ford was 188,596 through Q2 of 2022, according to the IRS:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales
That means that Ford only had to sell 11,404 qualifying EVs in Q3. In July, they did 4970 Mach-Es, 2173 F-150 Lightnings, and 526 E-transit vans, for a total of 7669, leaving less than 3800 vehicles. In August, they blew past that by selling 3120 Mach-Es, 2373 Lightnings, and 404 E-Transits.

so wait, does this mean that the phaseout of the old tax credit has begun? or can we still claim $7500 for a ford EV delivered by 12/31/2002?

 

[Mach1E]

So many great deals on used ones, why waste the $ on a new one? Find a gold cert'd one and the warranty is 4/48k

Is that a great deal? The 2021 is a year old and that’s more than the original owner paid new (after tax credit).

 

[Cm12]

You don’t have to do any of those things.

Did you read the post you quoted?

No plane tickets. No weird sales tax (sales tax is paid where you register the vehicle). No travel, no time off work.

I made phone calls, did paperwork through email, and they shipped the car to my house (well a mile up the street, but still).

It isn’t as difficult as you’re making it sound.

Actually I did, and actually it is pretty difficult. Let’s assume EVERYTHING works out perfectly, just as you described (I’ve looked into the sales tax situation - there’s a fair amount of paperwork that goes into it). Even if it all went perfect, I’m still gonna pay like $1,500-2,000 to ship the car. Have you ever shipped a car 500+ miles? It’s a gamble and can be a total PIA, even when using one of the major carriers. Again, that means my total cost is significantly over MSRP.

I’m happy it all worked out for you. However, I’m still waiting for you to explain how you can negotiate all ADM off because I’d love to use that technique!

 

[Mach1E]

Actually I did, and actually it is pretty difficult. Let’s assume EVERYTHING works out perfectly, just as you described (I’ve looked into the sales tax situation - there’s a fair amount of paperwork that goes into it). Even if it all went perfect, I’m still gonna pay like $1,500-2,000 to ship the car. Have you ever shipped a car 500+ miles? It’s a gamble and can be a total PIA, even when using one of the major carriers. Again, that means my total cost is significantly over MSRP.

I’m happy it all worked out for you. However, I’m still waiting for you to explain how you can negotiate all ADM off because I’d love to use that technique!

Again, read the posts….. I shipped the car 500 miles.

Paperwork for sales tax? Dealership handles all that, it was one click of my mouse on the electronic signature.

I don’t know what else to tell you.

I’ve done it.

It’s easy.

The dealer even arranged the shipping. Cost me $1/mile. Car showed up 3 days after signing the paperwork.

It was actually easier and faster than any car I have purchased in person. No waiting around for hours at the dealer while they prep the car or get paperwork ready.

 

[Cm12]

Again, read the posts….. I shipped the car 500 miles.

Paperwork for sales tax? Dealership handles all that, it was one click of my mouse on the electronic signature.

I don’t know what else to tell you.

I’ve done it.

It’s easy.

The dealer even arranged the shipping. Cost me $1/mile. Car showed up 3 days after signing the paperwork.

It was actually easier and faster than any car I have purchased in person. No waiting around for hours at the dealer while they prep the car or get paperwork ready.

Again, glad it worked out for you. It hasn’t for me. You keep saying “read the posts” just like you keep saying “everything is negotiable” but that’s not helpful at all. YOUR situation worked out for YOU in YOUR geographical location. Great, and that’s awesome. Not everyone is in your exact same situation.

 

[Hammered]

Is that a great deal? The 2021 is a year old and that’s more than the original owner paid new (after tax credit).

They're all the same vehicles. You can pay more but you're not getting more. The only thing that's changed from 21 to 22 to 23, is the price. The only questionable vehicles IMO are the job 1s. GTs are job 2. It's not until 2024 that the tax credit can be applied at POS. I paid 64 for my PE and its warranty is still longer than someone that receives their car today. The MY is an inconsequential variable that's got nothing to do with the actual value of the car to the owner. Might make you feel a little different inside, but it does nothing for everyone else.

 

[devmach-e]

so wait, does this mean that the phaseout of the old tax credit has begun? or can we still claim $7500 for a ford EV delivered by 12/31/2002?

Essentially, yes, full value of the credit is available for any qualifying Ford (PH)EV delivered by 12/31/2022.

Basically it doesn't matter if the old rules were in place, because qualifying Ford vehicles would still have the full credit in place this quarter since they hit the phaseout trigger in Q3. The full value of the credit is available in the quarter in which a manufacturer hit the 200K mark, and the following quarter. Which in this case is Q3 and Q4. Had the IRA not passed, the tax credit would've been cut in half to $3750 for Q1 and Q2.

When the IRA got signed into law, the old rules pretty much got tossed out, but the IRS/Treasury department decided to keep the 200K manufacturer limits in place until January 1st, 2023, and not enforce the battery assembly or content source rules util next year, just the requirement that the vehicle be assembled in North America. Which is why Tesla and GM don't get the credit this year, and Hyundai, Kia and Toyota completely lost the credit (amongst others). GM and Tesla will get some of the credit back next year based on battery assembly requirements, but Hyundai, Kia and Toyota are still out of luck until they open a plant assembling EVs in North America. What isn't clear is if the raw content source rules will be in effect. Unclear if Ford will qualify for the next tax credit this year based on the battery assembly or content sourcing rules.

 

[Hammered]

Essentially, yes, full value of the credit is available for any qualifying Ford (PH)EV delivered by 12/31/2022.

Basically it doesn't matter if the old rules were in place, because qualifying Ford vehicles would still have the full credit in place this quarter since they hit the phaseout trigger in Q3. The full value of the credit is available in the quarter in which a manufacturer hit the 200K mark, and the following quarter. Which in this case is Q3 and Q4. Had the IRA not passed, the tax credit would've been cut in half to $3750 for Q1 and Q2.

When the IRA got signed into law, the old rules pretty much got tossed out, but the IRS/Treasury department decided to keep the 200K manufacturer limits in place until January 1st, 2023, and not enforce the battery assembly or content source rules util next year, just the requirement that the vehicle be assembled in North America. Which is why Tesla and GM don't get the credit this year, and Hyundai, Kia and Toyota completely lost the credit (amongst others). GM and Tesla will get some of the credit back next year based on battery assembly requirements, but Hyundai, Kia and Toyota are still out of luck until they open a plant assembling EVs in North America. What isn't clear is if the raw content source rules will be in effect. Unclear if Ford will qualify for the next tax credit this year based on the battery assembly or content sourcing rules.

Unfortunately the law was written by a bunch of morons and come next year nobody will be getting the full credit because the US has virtually nothing in place to mine sufficient ore to produce the batteries.

 

[sim1]

Unfortunately the law was written by a bunch of morons and come next year nobody will be getting the full credit because the US has virtually nothing in place to mine sufficient ore to produce the batteries.

A bunch of morons? Or a bunch of folks who knew exactly what they were doing. Eliminating a $7,500 incentive certainly is an inflation reducing act.

 

[devmach-e]

Unfortunately the law was written by a bunch of morons and come next year nobody will be getting the full credit because the US has virtually nothing in place to mine sufficient ore to produce the batteries.

There’s nothing that says the material has to be sourced in the US. Free trade partners qualify.

 

[Hammered]

A bunch of morons? Or a bunch of folks who knew exactly what they were doing. Eliminating a $7,500 incentive certainly is an inflation reducing act.

If the goal was to reduce inflation, the bill wouldn't have been written. I defer to the previous statement.

Might as well have been called the debt reduction spending spree.

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