360 camera subscription on 2023 Select

[SWO]

Look at what I've found by building a Mach-E on the US ford webiste! They will include the 360 cameras in the Blue Cruise subscription for new owners! Probably because people didn't show a lot of interest to pay for that, they remove options from that car and add them in the subscription like BMW want to do with heated seats. Cheap shot Ford!

That's Bull-S***. I can see paying a subscription for something that requires management (like bluecruise maps). Making people pay in order to use hardware installed in their car is crap.

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[Blue highway]

As stated, prior years allowed you to get neither. What's the difference if you say no?

precedent - I'd prefer to do business with a car company that doesn't try subscription anything. I've driven BMWs for over a decade... they are now off my shopping list for this reason.

 

[hjp]

It's less about your options 1 & 3, and more about what the future holds when option 2 is all that is left.

I'm not making any predictions of what will happen with car subscriptions, just observing what has already happened with that model in other industries since some here seem confused at how subscriptions can ever be bad for consumers.

Ultimately there is no free lunch. If Ford is including hardware that isn't enabled then somebody is paying for it. Either the subscribers are paying twice, or the rest of us are subsidizing their hardware for them.

If this 360 subscription is all that comes of this with Ford, then it's much-a-do about nothing. The try-before-you buy is a compelling argument, for sure.

But regardless, it becomes an interesting philosophical / moral topic to opine about just for the sake of it.

Say a car has all the functional capabilities to detect a human and auto-brake, but the Save-a-Life module subscription had failed minutes earlier due to a credit card being suspended because of unrelated fraudulent charges. The driver blinks and then poor grandma is dead.

To the humor-impaired, that's a joke. But somewhere there's a line that gets drawn of what should and shouldn't be allowed...

Pretty sure that is how onstar already works. You don't subscribe and you put the car into a ditch that is filling with water in a storm and you are passed out. Yeah the car has all the hardware to call for help, pinpoint you, and potentially save your life but you didn't subscribe so you are out of luck. So not that much of a joke.

 

[Mach1E]

precedent - I'd prefer to do business with a car company that doesn't try subscription anything. I've driven BMWs for over a decade... they are now off my shopping list for this reason.

I’m still shocked so many people have a seemingly philosophical opposition to a subscription model.

Ironically, I’m betting if we dug into your personal finances, you probably have monthly payments on many things in your life.

Cell phone, internet, gym membership, TV, newspaper, magazines, clubs, etc.

And now you’re going to boycott manufacturers that offer this way of buying things as an OPTION?

Seems like an odd place to draw a line in the sand.

 

[awp0]

Cell phone, internet, gym membership, TV, newspaper, magazines, clubs, etc.

All of which are great examples of services. I don't think anyone considers Ford's 360 cam a service.

 

[Mach1E]

All of which are great examples of services. I don't think anyone considers Ford's 360 cam a service.

All of those involve hardware that you have to pay to use.

It’s definitely different and won’t be for everyone.

I’m honestly not trying to convince anyone to like it or do it. Just trying to convince people the idea isnt really that outrageous nor worth all the “outrage.”

 

[awp0]

All of those involve hardware that you have to pay to use.

I mean that's simply untrue except for the gym, which you effectively rent from someone else.

 

[newmme]

On this forum in 2019 there was huge backlash when Tesla started charging for premium connectivity (so you could stream YouTube, etc). We were all laughing at Telsa. Now, Ford has taken this way too far with a subscription to use the camera.

Kind of funny to read now a few years later with Ford's latest decision: Backlash over connectivity subscription

 

[daverp]

I think it should be pointed out the Ford is not offering the 360 Camera as a subscription, they are offering 90 day free trial of BlueCruise with 360 Degree camera, and if you like it you can pay $1900 to enable it forever, it's not an ongoing subscription.


Even if it was as subscription like BMW it's not as evil as it sounds. It's a manufacturing efficiency maneuver. It's easier to build the cars all the same and offer to have something enabled. If they didn't go with this model the alternatives would have been to drop BlueCruise + 360 Camera from the Select all together (liked they did with heated seats), or offer it as a more expensive option to people who just wanted it and incur the extras manufacturing costs of adding them to specific builds. The idea that is thrown around in this thread that they should just include it and enable it would never happen. That's living in fantasy land. They have an expectation that they are going to sell a number of these to offset the implementation costs, without that offset they would just drop the feature.

 

[awp0]

I think it should be pointed out the Ford is not offering the 360 Camera as a subscription, they are offering 90 day free trial of BlueCruise with 360 Degree camera, and if you like it you can pay $1900 to enable it forever, it's not an ongoing subscription.


Even if it was as subscription like BMW it's not as evil as it sounds. It's a manufacturing efficiency maneuver. It's easier to build the cars all the same and offer to have something enabled. If they didn't go with this model the alternatives would have been to drop BlueCruise + 360 Camera from the Select all together (liked they did with heated seats), or offer it as a more expensive option to people who just wanted it and incur the extras manufacturing costs of adding them to specific builds. The idea that is thrown around in this thread that they should just include it and enable it would never happen. That's living in fantasy land. They have an expectation that they are going to sell a number of these to offset the implementation costs, without that offset they would just drop the feature.

Well that would certainly be more appealing (to me) than a subscription. Too expensive IMHO, but more appealing model. Do you have a source for this? Does it mean BC is also not a subscription?

 

[Mach1E]

I mean that's simply untrue except for the gym, which you effectively rent from someone else.

You sure about that?

Cell phone- hardware
Cell phone plan- subscription

Tv-hardware
Streaming service, cable etc- subscription

Computer- hardware
Internet- subscription
Software- subscription
Websites- subscription
Virus protection- subscription
Cloud backup- subscription

This isn’t a new concept and philosophically just not really different than things we use and pay for and have for decades this way. You have the hardware and have to pay monthly to fully use it.


And the part that is DEFINITELY not new? Bluecruise subscription.

$600 for 3 years. And that’s after we already paid $1900 up front.

Do we even know what the cost will be yet?

 

[daverp]

Well that would certainly be more appealing (to me) than a subscription. Too expensive IMHO, but more appealing model. Do you have a source for this? Does it mean BC is also not a subscription?

Go through the order configurator, the $1900 for BC + 360 is listed.

On the select you get 90 days free of BlueCruise with 360 Camera (they are considered a single item), you can opt to keep it by paying $1900. CR1, Premium, and GT's include BC + 360 Camera, no extra charge, no subscription other than paying for the navigation maps after the included 3 years. BTW... you still have to pay for maps after 3 years if you pay the $1900. Same charge as you had on the 21 / 22 models.

Yes, it's expensive, but Tesla charges $6000 for hands free. Hard to compare to Chevy but I've seen calculations that put SuperCruise at around $3000 added cost.

 

[daverp]

Do we even know what the cost will be yet?

It's listed in the last step in the order configurator, if you want to keep it enabled, it's $1900.

 

[awp0]

You sure about that?

Cell phone- hardware
Cell phone plan- subscription

Tv-hardware
Streaming service, cable etc- subscription

Computer- hardware
Internet- subscription
Software- subscription
Websites- subscription
Virus protection- subscription
Cloud backup- subscription

This isn’t a new concept and philosophically just not really different than things we use and pay for and have for decades this way. You have the hardware and have to pay monthly to fully use it.


And the part that is DEFINITELY not new? Bluecruise subscription.

$600 for 3 years. And that’s after we already paid $1900 up front.

Yes, I am sure about that. You do not "have to pay to use" (your words) that hardware. It can all be used without the services. Those services undoubtedly make it better and the services cost money (separate from the devices), because they require all kinds of ongoing production/delivery/infrastructure/maintenance/support/etc.....unlike your 360 cam.

Edit: If this is not a subscription, as Dave is suggesting, then all of this is moot. I'm sure we can live with different philosophies on subscriptions like this

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