360 camera subscription on 2023 Select

[jbirdzee]

"Warning driver, it looks like you're about to encounter severe curb rash. Wanna see that play out? Click here to subscribe to 360 camera now"

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[awp0]

I noticed this immediately when the 2023 pricing was published, and I hate it. The idea of charging a subscription for a normal everyday feature that requires zero recurring costs to Ford just doesn't sit right with me. I'd prefer it to be treated like a normal option. Or, if they must do this "try before you buy" format, then just unlock it with a one-time fee that's tied to the car (not the owner).

 

[devmach-e]

I already have a subscription... It's my loan payment. ?

Your loan payment is between you and the finance company. It has little to do with the manufacturer, other than that the manufacturer may have a finance arm that lent you the money initially to buy the car.

 

[mateo]

That’s an awful lot of “maybesand unknowns.

And yes, it could turn out that way.

However, remember this only applies to select buyers who didn’t pay for the option!

Dont like the subscription model? You still have options:
1. Don’t pay for it. Result? It’s like it never existed
2. Subscribe- your choice
3. Get a premium and pay the full option price.

None of those sound bad to me.

It's less about your options 1 & 3, and more about what the future holds when option 2 is all that is left.

I'm not making any predictions of what will happen with car subscriptions, just observing what has already happened with that model in other industries since some here seem confused at how subscriptions can ever be bad for consumers.

Ultimately there is no free lunch. If Ford is including hardware that isn't enabled then somebody is paying for it. Either the subscribers are paying twice, or the rest of us are subsidizing their hardware for them.

If this 360 subscription is all that comes of this with Ford, then it's much-a-do about nothing. The try-before-you buy is a compelling argument, for sure.

But regardless, it becomes an interesting philosophical / moral topic to opine about just for the sake of it.

Say a car has all the functional capabilities to detect a human and auto-brake, but the Save-a-Life module subscription had failed minutes earlier due to a credit card being suspended because of unrelated fraudulent charges. The driver blinks and then poor grandma is dead.

To the humor-impaired, that's a joke. But somewhere there's a line that gets drawn of what should and shouldn't be allowed...

 

[Mach1E]

It's less about your options 1 & 3, and more about what the future holds when option 2 is all that is left.

I'm not making any predictions of what will happen with car subscriptions, just observing what has already happened with that model in other industries since some here seem confused at how subscriptions can ever be bad for consumers.

Ultimately there is no free lunch. If Ford is including hardware that isn't enabled then somebody is paying for it. Either the subscribers are paying twice, or the rest of us are subsidizing their hardware for them.

If this 360 subscription is all that comes of this with Ford, then it's much-a-do about nothing. The try-before-you buy is a compelling argument, for sure.

But regardless, it becomes an interesting philosophical / moral topic to opine about just for the sake of it.

Say a car has all the functional capabilities to detect a human and auto-brake, but the Save-a-Life module subscription had failed minutes earlier due to a credit card being suspended because of unrelated fraudulent charges. The driver blinks and then poor grandma is dead.

To the humor-impaired, that's a joke. But somewhere there's a line that gets drawn of what should and shouldn't be allowed...

Fair.

But for now……. Select 2023 owners get a free lunch.

 

[A-A-Ron]

So why are so many people acting like this is a bad thing?

Reasons people think this is a bad thing:

• Cost - there are only 2 ways Ford pays for this - they bake the cost of the hardware into the MSRP and then charge you again to actually use it or they price the hardware costs into the subscription but add a margin to cover the costs of hardware for people that don't subscribe - either way, you're paying more
• Subscription models work better for things with ongoing costs - data plans, service plans, music subscriptions, streaming services, I'm paying for new content, ongoing work, and infrastructure costs. Pay as you go for something that's there and has no ongoing cost makes no financial sense.
• To both of the above points, there's a worry that you'll end up paying more than you should - maybe there's a reasonable monthly price point for the feature but if I keep the car for a decade, was it really worth what you paid over time? $5/mo doesn't sound bad for a camera, but was the feature worth $600 that you paid over the decade you kept the car?
• It's a slippery slope and people are worried. Look at the airlines - here's a fee to book your ticket, here's a fee to pick your seat, check a bag, bring a carry-on, board earlier. What's that look like in a car? Would you like an airbag subscription? Maybe one for adaptive headlights? Heating and AC? Yes, I know I'm being hyperbolic, but then again, who thought they'd charge a subscription for a camera?
• Let's be honest - will this make more financial sense for consumers or Ford? Does anyone think this will benefit consumers?

 

[Mach1E]

Reasons people think this is a bad thing:

• Cost - there are only 2 ways Ford pays for this - they bake the cost of the hardware into the MSRP and then charge you again to actually use it or they price the hardware costs into the subscription but add a margin to cover the costs of hardware for people that don't subscribe - either way, you're paying more
• Subscription models work better for things with ongoing costs - data plans, service plans, music subscriptions, streaming services, I'm paying for new content, ongoing work, and infrastructure costs. Pay as you go for something that's there and has no ongoing cost makes no financial sense.
• To both of the above points, there's a worry that you'll end up paying more than you should - maybe there's a reasonable monthly price point for the feature but if I keep the car for a decade, was it really worth what you paid over time? $5/mo doesn't sound bad for a camera, but was the feature worth $600 that you paid over the decade you kept the car?
• It's a slippery slope and people are worried. Look at the airlines - here's a fee to book your ticket, here's a fee to pick your seat, check a bag, bring a carry-on, board earlier. What's that look like in a car? Would you like an airbag subscription? Maybe one for adaptive headlights? Heating and AC? Yes, I know I'm being hyperbolic, but then again, who thought they'd charge a subscription for a camera?
• Let's be honest - will this make more financial sense for consumers or Ford? Does anyone think this will benefit consumers?

Except that it didn’t raise the price.

Select models didn’t go up in price as much as the other trims.

Ford can offset the install cost with the people who do subscribe.

And if you don’t want to pay? You don’t have to!

Slippery slope? Maybe.

But the airline example you have just proves it actually keeps the price DOWN for those who don’t subscribe.

The a la carte airlines are SUPER cheap still if you don’t buy the extras. I just flew my family halfway across the country this summer on direct flights on Allegiant air.

No checked bag round trip price per ticket? $160.

If airlines didn’t separate out all the costs, Zero chance the price would be anywhere close.

So to your last point, will it benefit consumers? YES if you opt out.

For those that are long time subscribers? They may pay more, but they pay more to have the option to opt out. Kinda like “no contract” subscriptions.

 

[awp0]

Except that it didn’t raise the price.

Select models didn’t go up in price as much as the other trims.

Ford can offset the install cost with the people who do subscribe.

And if you don’t want to pay? You don’t have to!

Slippery slope? Maybe.

But the airline example you have just proves it actually keeps the price DOWN for those who don’t subscribe.

The a la carte airlines are SUPER cheap still if you don’t buy the extras. I just flew my family halfway across the country this summer on direct flights on Allegiant air.

No checked bag round trip price per ticket? $160.

If airlines didn’t separate out all the costs, Zero chance the price would be anywhere close.

So to your last point, will it benefit consumers? YES if you opt out.

For those that are long time subscribers? They may pay more, but they pay more to have the option to opt out. Kinda like “no contract” subscriptions.

There are two components to this: 1) that Ford is delivering hardware that needs to be "unlocked" to be used, 2) that it can only be unlocked with a subscription rather than a one-time option price that is tied to the car.

I don't like either of these personally, but I'm extremely turned off by number 2 and I'd like to see Ford offer a one-time fee, you know, like your low-cost airline example

 

[Mach1E]

There are two components to this: 1) that Ford is delivering hardware that needs to be "unlocked" to be used, 2) that it can only be unlocked with a subscription rather than a one-time option price that is tied to the car.

I don't like either of these personally, but I'm extremely turned off by number 2 and I'd like to see Ford offer a one-time fee, you know, like your low-cost airline example

They DO offer a 1 time fee! The subscription model only exists for the select models who didn’t pay for those options.

Premium, CR1 and GT can check the box and pay $1900.

And again, select buyers paid nothing for the “locked” hardware.

No one is being forced to do anything. No one is being forced to pay anything and you do have options.

It’s like ordering a cheese pizza and they give you pepperoni on the side and a “free taste” but charge you $1 if you keep the pepperoni.

All you have to do is not eat it. Some will taste it and pay $1.

And apparently some people will get offended if they offer you a free sample.

 

[Motomax]

I think the people who dislike this idea (like myself) fear the proverbial slippery slope where this takes us.

Generally speaking, I dislike the notion of software disabling hardware that is already on the vehicle. I understand that:

a) technically it may be cheaper to make all cars the same because the physical hardware costs next to nothing to purchase whereas having allowing it to be configured creates a more expensive production line, and

b) tempting people with previewing a feature may cause them to spend more money than they otherwise would.

Add those together, and it means more money for the manufacturer.

To me this is even more blatantly "wrong" if the hardware in question serves no other purpose. e.g. If the subscription is not purchased then the hardware does nothing. It create e-waste and is just a bad precedence. I'd rather they just split the difference and included it everywhere and spread the cost around.

Ultimately: If the cost of the hardware is so inconsequential then just include it turned-on for everybody. Don't present this as a choice between "not there at all" and "only there for a subscription." A third choice exists: everybody gets to use it. Let's always advocate for the best choice for the consumer.

The only place subscriptions make sense to me on a car is if it is to provide ongoing services that perpetually cost the manufacturer money (e.g. providing internet connectivity or keeping maps up to date).

I will never spend money on a subscription for something like heated seats, a camera, etc. It's ludicrous and I hope enough people agree that it provides no value to the companies that try it.

100% it’s insane that people are willing to pay subscriptions on hardware. You might as well call it a rental fee (insert ISP modems/routers here).
Subscriptions on things that continuously cost money to upkeep makes sense but this is just ridiculous and I hope no one falls for it so it can crash and burn.
If they want this model to work, they should just convert it to a set upgrade fee that can be paid over time. Either way if you want the feature it’ll most likely end up costing you more than just getting it upfront.

 

[Chuck]

Look at what I've found by building a Mach-E on the US ford webiste! They will include the 360 cameras in the Blue Cruise subscription for new owners! Probably because people didn't show a lot of interest to pay for that, they remove options from that car and add them in the subscription like BMW want to do with heated seats. Cheap shot Ford!

It's the way of the world going forward. People have spoken with their wallets, they don't want bundles they want piecemeal subscription pricing. Just look at television. Cable TV is dying and is being replaced by individual subscription models. Microsoft office is now a subscription model. Amazon shipping is now a subscription model. Music streaming is a subscription model.

The younger generation has accepted that there will be a monthly cost for everything and you will own nothing. In the future, Ford and others will not sell cars and will only offer a subscription model for the car. Get accustomed to it, the avalanche is coming down the hill.

 

[awp0]

They DO offer a 1 time fee! The subscription model only exists for the select models who didn’t pay for those options.

Premium, CR1 and GT can check the box and pay $1900.

And again, select buyers paid nothing for the “locked” hardware.

No one is being forced to do anything. No one is being forced to pay anything and you do have options.

It’s like ordering a cheese pizza and they give you pepperoni on the side and a “free taste” but charge you $1 if you keep the pepperoni.

All you have to do is not eat it. Some will taste it and pay $1.

And apparently some people will get offended if they offer you a free sample.

I think you know what I mean. I'm frustrated that the only option they provided in the Select trim is an unusual and unappealing (for many people) subscription model for the hardware that is already provisioned, and they purposefully decided not to let people turn on their camera for a one-time fee without up-leveling the trim. It feels greedy and a bit sleazy for a camera feature without any cloud or online capability.

I'm also frustrated that they lost an opportunity for innovation. Rather than nickel-and-diming people for a basic disconnected camera view, imagine if they decided to improve recurring revenue streams by innovating and building cloud-connected features that use those cameras?

Of course people can "opt out" of the 360 cam, which is nice I guess, and thankfully they can also opt-out of the brand if this becomes a strategic direction for Ford.

 

[newmme]

Maybe they are going to let you stream the 360 camera to the Ford App so you can keep an eye on your car. That would be a first for any car maker!

 

[West1134]

Maybe they are going to let you stream the 360 camera to the Ford App so you can keep an eye on your car. That would be a first for any car maker!

You mean like Sentry mode on the Tesla?

 

[awp0]

I'm still subscribed to some Tesla subreddits from when I was researching EVs months ago. From what I can plainly see in the posts, the Sentry and Dashcam features are super useful and commonly save people money in collisions and parking lot damage.

Meanwhile we're talking about adding a subscription to see your camera view inside the car.

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