360 camera subscription on 2023 Select

[daverp]

Edit: If this is not a subscription, as Dave is suggesting, then all of this is moot. I'm sure we can live with different philosophies on subscriptions like this

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[Mach1E]

Yes, I am sure about that. You do not "have to pay to use" (your words) that hardware. It can all be used without the services. Those services undoubtedly make it better and the services cost money (separate from the devices), because they require all kinds of ongoing production/delivery/infrastructure/maintenance/support/etc.....unlike your 360 cam.

Edit: If this is not a subscription, as Dave is suggesting, then all of this is moot. I'm sure we can live with different philosophies on subscriptions like this

You can still drive your car without the 360 camera.

Totally agree on the edit though.

If that’s true, then WTF are people complaining about? It’s the same exact price as every other model for that option. If anything, it’s BETTER because you can try before you buy.

 

[Mach1E]

Facepalm……. ?‍

So this whole thread is much ado about nothing?

 

[daverp]

I would not be surprised if they end up offering a monthly subscription additionally. I think once you get past the philosophical debate here, I do think a good number of people would opt to keep if for $50 per month as opposed to having to pay $1900 up front.

BMW also offers a permeant activation for around $400 which is about what you paid to add heated seats to their lower levels in the first place. I think the key difference from Ford, is in the UK where BMW is testing this they did this for the entire model line. Ford took what was an option and just added to the car and gives you the choice to turn it on or not for a fee. It was an option before and it's still an option now. It's still included with the models that previously included it. BMW applied this to model levels that would have normally included heated seats. To me that is the critical distinction.

 

[daverp]

Facepalm……. ?‍

So this whole thread is much ado about nothing?

pretty much.

 

[phil]

All of which are great examples of services. I don't think anyone considers Ford's 360 cam a service.

Newspapers and magazines are in fact goods, not services. The camera itself is not a service, but the use of it is a service. Handy guide to goods and services below.

Subscriptions are commonly used for both goods and services, and the distinction between goods and services is irrelevant here. The appropriateness of a subscription model is entirely dependent on the perceived value to the subscriber. You don't want to pay? Then don't pay.

Although subscription can be a perfectly reasonable arrangement, I find that I have a visceral dislike of subscriptions. I think that what bothers me is the idea of a periodic payment lasting for an unlimited period of time. If I subscribe long enough, it will cost over a million dollars! I have managed to overcome this aversion and currently subscribe to various goods and services. But I still don't like it.

1. Goods are the material items that the customers are ready to purchase for a price. Services are the amenities, benefits or facilities provided by the other persons.
2. Goods are tangible items i.e. they can be seen or touched whereas services are intangible items.
3. When the buyer purchases the goods by paying the consideration, the ownership of goods moves from the seller to the buyer. Conversely, the ownership of services is non-transferable.

 

[Blue highway]

All of which are great examples of services. I don't think anyone considers Ford's 360 cam a service.

Exactly...

 

[daverp]

1. It's a singular item. BlueCruise with 360 degree camera. You can't purchase just BlueCruise or just the 360 degree camera.
2. It's $1900, not a ongoing payment. It's quite literally on their order page.
3. It does appear to be attached to the car's vin and stays with the car once sold.

 

[moparguy]

For 2022, I had an order for a Select AWD with the Comfort & Technology Package which included both the 360-degree camera AND BlueCruise. So your statement is not true. I had to change my order to a Premium with the Standard Range Battery to keep the cost down. Went from $52K to $60K for the 2023 -- now I just have to hope Ford's "private offer" makes up a lot of that MSRP hike -- they have not provided details yet.

I would have much rather ford kept the Comfort & Technology Package available for the Select rather than invalidate my order. I did not really need to pay for the glass roof, better stereo and upgraded wheels of the premium. I like the roof, stereo and wheels in the base model just fine even if the Premium were a bit better.

I am nervous for the glass roof living in Las Vegas -- 4 months of the year that may be a bit hot.

To my understanding, if you change the trim level, you are no longer protected by price protection/private offer, I could be wrong but that's what my dealer told me when I tried to change my premium to GT 3 weeks ago.

 

[moparguy]

It's less about your options 1 & 3, and more about what the future holds when option 2 is all that is left.

I'm not making any predictions of what will happen with car subscriptions, just observing what has already happened with that model in other industries since some here seem confused at how subscriptions can ever be bad for consumers.

I am in the information technology business, today I get a pop-up on my Adobe Acrobat Reader Pro 2011 that it's not supported, it's 11 years old, but still works like magic to merge/convert pdfs, around 2016-2017 Adobe retired the perpetual licenses altogether and moved on with subscription, we paid maybe 250-400 per license 11 years ago and we used that very same license for 11 years, on the licenses that we bought in 2020 for example, I believe we are paying about 240 per year per license, that will cost us about 3300-4000 in 11 years assuming inflation, see how much profit Adobe made?
there is no way they are switching back, auto manufacturers are realizing the same thing, this is only the beginning, the more people defend this strategy like some here in this post, the faster companies will transition.

The hardware is in the car, built-in, no need to charge more for it! either have it as an option list or not.

 

[daverp]

The hardware is in the car, built-in, no need to charge more for it! either have it as an option list or not.

That assumes they would still choose to add the hardware to the car if they knew they would not get a return on the investment. They would be more likely to drop the feature completely like they did with heated seats.

It's also not a subscription, BlueCruise with 360 degree camera (it's a singular item) is a $1900 option. You get 90 days free trial, after that pay $1900 or not.

 

[MachEMaster]

I mostly use the 360 camera for parking, and seeing where my vehicle is, in relation to curbs, and obstacles. I don’t think I will miss BlueCruise, once my 3 year trial is up. My commute is so busy with traffic, I feel I need to be hands on the controls at all times. BlueCruise is best on multi lane highways, with decent spacing and speed. If they shut off my heated seats, and 360 camera on my Select, I would be quite disappointed.

 

[daverp]

If they shut off my heated seats, and 360 camera on my Select, I would be quite disappointed.

??? Do you have your car already or do you have one on order?

They will not, and cannot take a feature of a sold car and turn it into subscription. That would be all sorts of illegal and a PR / Business disaster.

 

[MachEMaster]

??? Do you have your car already or do you have one on order?

They will not, and cannot take a feature of a sold car and turn it into subscription. That would be all sorts of illegal and a PR / Business disaster.

Luckily I have a ‘22 Select AWD with the Comfort/Tech package.

 

[Rfehl62]

Look at what I've found by building a Mach-E on the US ford webiste! They will include the 360 cameras in the Blue Cruise subscription for new owners! Probably because people didn't show a lot of interest to pay for that, they remove options from that car and add them in the subscription like BMW want to do with heated seats. Cheap shot Ford!

Just to clarify, the 360 camera is not on a 90-day trail. It is just the Bluecruise that will end. After 90 days the camera will still work.

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