48A L2 Charger Comparison

[Anthropod]

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[mkhuffman]

I actually purchased the emporia home power monitor a year before I got the EVSE. One of the reasons I purchased the emporia EVSE was because it would integrate with my power monitoring solution, showing all my home's power usage in one app.

The other reason I purchased the emporia EVSE is because it was the least expensive 48 Amp WiFi networked one available. It probably still is the least expensive decent one out there. And you can control the maximum current via the app, not via hardware switches. Not that I have ever done that - I don't see any good reason not to charge at 48 Amps every single time I need to charge.

 

[sukhoi_584th]

@mkhuffman see my earlier post. 48 A causes significant unnecessary heat losses compared to if you can charge slower and still get done what you need overnight.

 

[tuminatr]

I think any of those would work. I have a Juicebox 60a it works great. It's one of their Kickstarter chargers so it's old but reliable. it's a dumb charger but with the MME I don't feel I need a smart charger.

 

[Anthropod]

It's very useful to control the amps via the app. With my 40 A Wallbox I normally keep it set at 32 A and only turn it up to 40 A when I'm trying to charge quickly to depart on a trip after coming home from work. Remember all the heat in the system due to resistance in the wires and connections goes up with I² while the charging time is linear with I (current). 40 A is about 60% more resistance heating throughout the system than 32 A yet only charges 25% greater, and 48 A is much worse of a ratio.

So…basically charge as slow as you feel you can and things are better because you are producing less heat through less resistance? What are the drawbacks of producing said heat? I think I understand a few of the drawbacks, but would love to hear the gambit.

 

[RickMachE]

@mkhuffman see my earlier post. 48 A causes significant unnecessary heat losses compared to if you can charge slower and still get done what you need overnight.

I'm not into the calculations, but it's easy enough to test. Set to 32amps, it shows in the JB app how much kWh it's sending to the car. Wait X minutes (30?) and see how much the car increased (although Ford rounds/truncates). Set to 40amps, repeat. Set to 48amps, repeat.

I have mine set to 32amps because I don't even need that level MOST of the time. If we come home empty from a trip, it might take 12+ hours. If I know I will need to use the car fully charged, I'll raise it up. Most of the time, I only need to make say a grocery store run the next day, so I don't raise it up.

 

[SnBGC]

So…basically charge as slow as you feel you can and things are better because you are producing less heat through less resistance? What are the drawbacks of producing said heat? I think I understand a few of the drawbacks, but would love to hear the gambit.

Heat=wasted energy.
Too much can damage machinery and components. It always comes down to thermal management. It has been that way for centuries to be honest.

 

[louc757]

The other reason I purchased the emporia EVSE is because it was the least expensive 48 Amp WiFi networked one available. It probably still is the least expensive decent one out there. And you can control the maximum current via the app, not via hardware switches. Not that I have ever done that - I don't see any good reason not to charge at 48 Amps every single time I need to charge.

Thanks for everyone input. Anthony had a great video review, and I appreciate Mike's insight into with the power monitoring system. Rick said it best, get the best EVSE you can for the money you want to spend. I see the EV ecosystem like the IBM PC back in the 80s. Battery technology is improving exponentially, and whatever you buy today, is already obsolete. With that said, I just ordered the Emporia EVSE. It has the features I'm looking for, at a great price.

I am having an electrician do the work since I will be installing a sub-panel in the garage, then run a circuit to hardwire the EVSE and also install a NEMA 14-50 plug as a backup. Murphy will strike when you need to charge most, so I wanted to use the mobile charger Ford provides if the EVSE goes down. I have 2 150A mains. The sub will run off one, and I will have a generator interlock installed on the other while the electrician is here since we lose power quite a bit. If I get a Lightning, the bi-directional charger may power the other panel. I will also install the energy monitoring system to see what systems are using the most.

 

[Maxwells4]

Charge point home flex actually does let you change the charging current with the app... It's just a different app. When you use that app it makes you promise you really know what you are doing and are qualified... Presumably so people don't go setting their chargers to 50A on 30A circuits. One nice thing for me is that it knows the TOU plan rates from my utility already.

 

[Hall Cyber Orange]

I ordered a 2023 MME GTPE on Sep 1. I am looking to purchase a L2 charger while I am waiting for it to be delivered. My requirements are:

1. 48A Charger
2. Control the amperage through the app
3. Wifi enabled
4. The app has cost tracking

I was looking for a thread to compare the different chargers, but couldn't find one. I searched the threads here, looked at reviews, watched VLOGs, and came up with this. I am leaning towards the Emporia and Autel right now. There are lots of reviews on Juicebox, Chargepoint, and Wallbox, but not a lot for Autel and Emporia.

Autel Maxicharger Price $599 CSA Certified

• Amperage controlled through the app
• WiFi and Bluetooth (BT)
• Max gauge 6 AWG wire
• Cost tracking in app
• 3 year warranty

Emporia EV Charging Station Price $499 UL Listed

• Amperage controlled through the app
• WiFi
• Max gauge 6 AWG wire
• Cost tracking in app
• 3 year warranty

Chargepoint Flex Charger Price $749 UL Listed

• Cannot adjust amperage through the app (latest version this has been taken away)
• WiFi
• Max gauge 6 AWG wire
• Cost tracking in app
• 3 year warranty

Wallbox 48A Charger Price $699 UL Certified

• Amperage controlled through the app
• WiFi and Bluetooth (BT)
• Max gauge 6 AWG wire
• Cost tracking in app
• 3 year warranty

Juicebox 48A Price $739 UL Listed

• Amperage controlled through the app
• App has very poor reviews
• WiFi
• Max gauge wire?
• NO cost tracking in app
• 3 year warranty

So right now I am interested in the Emporia or Autel. For those with these EVSEs, do you have any problems with them, and would you buy it again? Thanks in advance!

I have the Chargepoint 48A charger and the Ford Charger Ford Connected Charge Station – Ford Electric

I prefer the Ford charger. It seems a little faster to charge.

 

[ChuckA]

I adjust the amperage on my Juicebox 40 to match my solar system excess output during off peak hours. For instance, if my solar system is over producing by 1.5 kW at 9:00 AM I set my Juicebox at 6 amps. At 11:00 AM when my system now overproducing by another 1.5 kW, I change my Juicebox to from 6 amps to 12 amps. I don't want to sell my excess energy to my utility at off peak rates.

With solar and a net meter you are selling net kWh during peak hours and you should set your charging schedule to off peak. Chance is that your excess usage, if any, will be at off peak rates. Managing kWh usage any further is wasting brain cells. Nothing further you can do but turn off a/c, freezers, refrigerators, or lights.

 

[generaltso]

Charge point home flex actually does let you change the charging current with the app... It's just a different app. When you use that app it makes you promise you really know what you are doing and are qualified... Presumably so people don't go setting their chargers to 50A on 30A circuits. One nice thing for me is that it knows the TOU plan rates from my utility already.

I didn't have much luck with that app. I tried logging in with my regular ChargePoint account, which didn't work. So I tried creating a new Service Pro account and it just pops up an error that says "False".

 

[RickMachE]

I have the Chargepoint 48A charger and the Ford Charger Ford Connected Charge Station – Ford Electric

I prefer the Ford charger. It seems a little faster to charge.

In short, if both are set to the same amperage, your perception is likely not reality. If in fact they aren't set to the same amperage, then your perception is likely reality.

 

[HuntingPudel]

I have the Autel and it works great
Note, max amps is 40 amps, I have mine set to 32 amps.
The app works great, and you can input your electric rate .
I believe the working temp is up to 160 degrees F
Bill P

Note that 160F is not environmental. It’s the maximum temperature of the hottest individual component within the assembly. I know of very few electronic components that will operate at a higher temperature. Correct cooling design is important in making the entire assembly operate at a high ambient temperature. ??

 

[sukhoi_584th]

So…basically charge as slow as you feel you can and things are better because you are producing less heat through less resistance? What are the drawbacks of producing said heat? I think I understand a few of the drawbacks, but would love to hear the gambit.

The heat is literally energy you're paying for that's being dumped into the atmosphere. It also increases the bounds of the thermal cycling of your charging infrastructure, and higher temperatures accelerate thermally-induced material breakdown.

I'm not into the calculations, but it's easy enough to test. Set to 32amps, it shows in the JB app how much kWh it's sending to the car. Wait X minutes (30?) and see how much the car increased (although Ford rounds/truncates). Set to 40amps, repeat. Set to 48amps, repeat.

I have mine set to 32amps because I don't even need that level MOST of the time. If we come home empty from a trip, it might take 12+ hours. If I know I will need to use the car fully charged, I'll raise it up. Most of the time, I only need to make say a grocery store run the next day, so I don't raise it up.

Let's do the math assuming a 1 Ω resistance in the entire system, which I suspect isn't unreasonable given all the different connections and components in the circuit. P = I²R. With R =1 Ω then P = I². Thus 32 A is 1.024 kW, 40 A is 1.600 kW, and 48 A is 2.304 kW. That's a lot of (usually) unnecessary heat loss. Even if the system resistance is half then 48 A is still 640 W greater than 32 A.

I'm not saying never charge faster than 32 A. You're doing it right; with the battery capacity of these cars most people should be able to get a full charge overnight at 32 A, so do that. If you're needing a quick turn-around to get out of town then definitely up your charger to 40 A or 48 A. It's just that there are downsides to charging at 40+ A all the time.

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