6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles

PianoDan0

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If you had modules replaced it's going to take a couple weeks for the cells to complete balance out. Make sure the car can charge to 100% okay, if not it needs to go back.
Yeah I figured it had something to do with that.

No problems charging to 100%. If I charge to 100%, my energy to empty is about 84.5kWh so I guess that means about 96% SOH since I have the 88kWh battery. I'm not sure if that is how Ford calculates it, but that makes sense to me.
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Mach-Lee

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Yeah I figured it had something to do with that.

No problems charging to 100%. If I charge to 100%, my energy to empty is about 84.5kWh so I guess that means about 96% SOH since I have the 88kWh battery. I'm not sure if that is how Ford calculates it, but that makes sense to me.
It's out of 91 kWh now. So 84.5/91 = 92.5% health which where the parameter should be. Try to charge up to 100% a couple times in a row after draining it down, then repeat again in two weeks. Hopefully that gets your SoH parameter back up to the 90's.
 

PianoDan0

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It's out of 91 kWh now. So 84.5/91 = 92.5% health which where the parameter should be. Try to charge up to 100% a couple times in a row after draining it down, then repeat again in two weeks. Hopefully that gets your SoH parameter back up to the 90's.
Oh that's what they did in that recent update to change the SOH.

I'll give that a try, thanks!

Ultimately I guess it doesn't really matter what my SOH says, I feel like the energy to empty is the true SOH anyways.
 

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After learning how much more important a "balanced" battery is than the usable capacity of a battery, I personally consider the real SOH of my EV battery is reflected here:

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles 20240525_101647
 


nuMach

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dont quote me ... i read it on the internet - but article mentioned tesla owners at 10 years had only 10% loss.
 

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After learning how much more important a "balanced" battery is than the usable capacity of a battery, I personally consider the real SOH of my EV battery is reflected here:

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles 20240525_101647
Interesting you should say, just run a check on my battery at 91% SoC and cell voltages are all around all within a few thousandths of a Volt of 4.03V so quite balanced.

SoH running at 92%.

86,000 miles & 35 months old.

IMG_4987.jpeg
 

Snakebitten

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Interesting you should say, just run a check on my battery at 91% SoC and cell voltages are all around all within a few thousandths of a Volt of 4.03V so quite balanced.

SoH running at 92%.

86,000 miles & 35 months old.

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles IMG_4987
Exactly.
I admit that I would love to have a wonderfully high SOH value.
And if I used my car for long distance travel, I would want to have the highest KWH capacity as possible.

But that cell/module variation is the real potential party pooper.

Having said all that, while it's comforting to see such a low voltage variation at high SOC, I am more concerned with seeing that delta/variation at the bottom end of SOC. From what I understand, it's at a low SOC that the modules/cells will most likely reveal their vulnerability.
 

Mach-Lee

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Exactly.
I admit that I would love to have a wonderfully high SOH value.
And if I used my car for long distance travel, I would want to have the highest KWH capacity as possible.

But that cell/module variation is the real potential party pooper.

Having said all that, while it's comforting to see such a low voltage variation at high SOC, I am more concerned with seeing that delta/variation at the bottom end of SOC. From what I understand, it's at a low SOC that the modules/cells will most likely reveal their vulnerability.
Your battery is only as good as the cell with the lowest capacity. How far you can go is based on that.
 

Snakebitten

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Your battery is only as good as the cell with the lowest capacity. How far you can go is based on that.
The way I understand it, that weakest cell can hide its weakness at a high SOC (not vary as much from the pack), but increases its variation of voltage from the rest of the pack as the SOC lowers?

On the Nissan Leaf, at high SOC, the variation between the lowest voltage cell and the highest, might be ~20 millivolts. Considered healthy, by Leaf standards.
But that same cell might vary by 400 millivolts as the SOC of the whole pack drops lower. Say 30% SOC. (or lower)

Suddenly the car under load will drop SOC instantly and range dissappears before your eyes. Turtle mode can trigger as well.

Unlike carscanner, LeafSpy shows the voltage of every cell in real time. And the current variation/delta of the lowest/average/highest cell. (see below)

Each vertical line is one of 96 cells.
6mv is the delta (very good)
SOC of the pack is 95%

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles Screenshot_20240120_101617_LeafSpy Pro


The delta always increases at lower SOC. So you can't be sure when shopping for a used Leaf unless the seller will allow at test drive at a lower SOC. The lower the better!

Same Leaf at 38% SOC.
Delta has only increased to 17mv.
SOH says 88% at 6 years old. But battery is still really healthy for a Leaf considering.

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles Screenshot_20240122_171543_LeafSpy Pro


I got my EV teething on a Leaf. It was a great car for a newbie, and a low risk bargain!

That car was absolutely responsible for leading me to the GTPE.
 

Mach-Lee

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The way I understand it, that weakest cell can hide its weakness at a high SOC (not vary as much from the pack), but increases its variation of voltage from the rest of the pack as the SOC lowers?

On the Nissan Leaf, at high SOC, the variation between the lowest voltage cell and the highest, might be ~20 millivolts. Considered healthy, by Leaf standards.
But that same cell might vary by 400 millivolts as the SOC of the whole pack drops lower. Say 30% SOC. (or lower)

Suddenly the car under load will drop SOC instantly and range dissappears before your eyes. Turtle mode can trigger as well.

Unlike carscanner, LeafSpy shows the voltage of every cell in real time. And the current variation/delta of the lowest/average/highest cell. (see below)

Each vertical line is one of 96 cells.
6mv is the delta (very good)
SOC of the pack is 95%

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles Screenshot_20240122_171543_LeafSpy Pro


The delta always increases at lower SOC. So you can't be sure when shopping for a used Leaf unless the seller will allow at test drive at a lower SOC. The lower the better!

Same Leaf at 38% SOC.
Delta has only increased to 17mv.
SOH says 88% at 6 years old. But battery is still really healthy for a Leaf considering.

Ford Mustang Mach-E 6% Battery Degradation after 3 years, 35k miles Screenshot_20240122_171543_LeafSpy Pro


I got my EV teething on a Leaf. It was a great car for a newbie, and a low risk bargain!

That car was absolutely responsible for leading me to the GTPE.
Yes, if the pack is top balanced, then you’ll see the biggest voltage deltas when the pack is at low SoC. The BMS keeps track of these voltage deltas versus SoC and uses that to determine the individual cells’ capacity. The BMS in the Mach-E is a little bit more sophisticated than the leaf, so you shouldn’t see as bad of dips in SoC under load.
 

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I think everything about the Mach-E would qualify as more sophisticated than the Leaf. :)

But I have great respect for the existence and history of the Leaf. It's far more than what a North American might be aware of. I know I didn't have a clue when I impulse purchased one.
 
 




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