Anyone here gone solar?

[2Ponies]

That would be the more efficient use of solar for BEVs - charging during the daylight. Nighttime charging (which most people need to do, at home) requires time-shifting, that adds cost. Typically by relying on the power company to time-shift (which can be problematic with duck curve demand), or with storage (that's expensive).

I tried to get out company to offer free charging in the middle of the day (Biggest part of the dip in the Duck Curve) to help with the oversupply issues. We have over 700KW of rooftop/parking solar at work and I am sure we add to the dip. Why not take advantage of the Cheapest energy in the middle of the day when all of the commercial solar is peaking and residential load is bottoming out with all of the roof top solar. They said no!

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[2Ponies]

Yes. The whole notion of years of payback followed by huge cost savings makes no sense, don't know where it came from. Anyone looking at an investment typically thinks about rate of return. Interest on a bond, dividends on a stock, appreciation of real estate, etc. For solar and cost-shifting batteries, the monthly cost savings can be used to calculate the rate of return. I have 10 kW peak power array and 35 kWh battery system that yields me over 6% TAX FREE rate of return. I repeat, this a tax free rate of return. I pay no taxes on the cost savings every month, it just goes straight to my budget bottom line. Worth it? Absolutely, from the first month! The other nice thing is that the 6% goes up a bit every year as electricity rates increase over time. By putting the Tesla PowerWalls on the system, not only do I have a backup in the case of a grid power loss, I also shift usage to the low cost 10pm to 8 am period when the cost per kWh is least. That is when I charge my electric vehicle as well. I have multiple powerwalls and keep 25% to 30% in reserve in case of an unplanned power outage. My batteries charge up from solar during the morning hours, dumping excess production to the grid all afternoon (high cost credits), then power my entire house from battery through the most expensive evening hours. Net $$ FROM the power company is around $1000 per year, even with my electric vehicle charging every few days.

You have it dialed in. With the rates in SoCal it only makes sense. I am in a little muni up north, 9.3 cents / KWh and net metering. The Grid is my battery. (as long as it is available)

 

[dbsb3233]

I've done the math for my house, and it just doesn't make fiscal sense (yet). But that's largely because our electric rate is only $0.10/kWh.

I tried to get out company to offer free charging in the middle of the day (Biggest part of the dip in the Duck Curve) to help with the oversupply issues. We have over 700KW of rooftop/parking solar at work and I am sure we add to the dip. Why not take advantage of the Cheapest energy in the middle of the day when all of the commercial solar is peaking and residential load is bottoming out with all of the roof top solar. They said no!

Do they already provide chargers for employees? That can be a significant cost in itself (equipment, installation, maintenance).

"Free" can be hard to justify, even at cheaper morning/midday rates. But slapping a timer on the circuit to cut off power in the early afternoon would help some.

 

[2Ponies]

I've done the math for my house, and it just doesn't make fiscal sense (yet). But that's largely because our electric rate is only $0.10/kWh.

Do they already provide chargers for employees? That can be a significant cost in itself (equipment, installation, maintenance).

"Free" can be hard to justify, even at cheaper morning/midday rates. But slapping a timer on the circuit to cut off power in the early afternoon would help some.

We have a couple dozen chargers at work, they charge a flat 10 cents a KWh, so I really can't complain when I have to charge at work.

 

[dbsb3233]

We have a couple dozen chargers at work, they charge a flat 10 cents a KWh, so I really can't complain when I have to charge at work.

Yeah that's pretty cheap. Basically residential rates (that's what I pay at home round-the-clock).

Might be that the system can't easily handle different rates based on time-of-day too.

 

[MerryBrown]

6 years ago we got the Solar City (now Tesla) solar panels and were pleased with the program. It cut our costs by 30% per month at the time. But then the local utility (PGE - you may have heard of them they have had a few issues with lack of maintenance and subsequent fires resulted in lawsuits) added fees to recoup their costs. So now we are still paying less but less satisfied with the system, and we get billed directly by Tesla. Trying to determine if we have any options. Some of our friends have purchased their systems. Might consider that possibility.

 

[abr]

6 years ago we got the Solar City (now Tesla) solar panels and were pleased with the program. It cut our costs by 30% per month at the time. But then the local utility (PGE - you may have heard of them they have had a few issues with lack of maintenance and subsequent fires resulted in lawsuits) added fees to recoup their costs. So now we are still paying less but less satisfied with the system, and we get billed directly by Tesla. Trying to determine if we have any options. Some of our friends have purchased their systems. Might consider that possibility.

If you have good sun exposure to your roof, there isn't a logical reason I can think of not to buy the system instead of leasing. You will be money ahead in a number of years and it will add to the value of the home making your payback that much quicker. If liquidity is an issue, just borrow at the current cheap rates.

 

[Rhynri]

We have an 8kW system. We got a 500$/kW rebate from our utility, just barely missing out on the 1000$/kW one they originally had. Our utility is a public municipal one, and we have one bill, a good rate, and they do net metering. In a good summer month, we can zero out our utility bill entirely. It's very nice. We also finagled the solar installers into dropping a 100A sub-panel into the garage and wiring up our 48A charger for free since they took a while to get around to our install.

 

[SJ_Okay]

@jhalkias I’ve got a 6kw PV system (18 panels) and a 6kw Duracell Power Bank, set up for grid trading.

My utility company (Social Energy) connect my battery wirelessly to everyone else who has an array and power bank. They then use proprietary AI to monitor the the house energy demand and patterns etc and use the power bank as a holding account for trading energy. It learns to prioritise the household needs and demands and then sells sorted energy at demand peaks and buys it back when it dips. Quite clever. In peak summer, I was getting around £60 a month, and had a bill go only £10, so it’s quite effective. They also keep 10% of your battery free so they are able to offer the national grid a set amount of storage capacity for the times when they may have too much supply and would otherwise dump. We get paid for that too, though it’s not much... usually £3-£5 per month.

They’re a start up, so it has not been without its issues for me, but it’s starting to come right. It was interesting to see this year that Tesla applied to become an energy supplier in the Uk market, using pretty much the exact same business model... I’m following that development with interest, as I suspect Tesla have either created their own trading AI, or are potentially going to acquire Social Energy.

Once V2G is fully established in the UK, you then have the same option of grid trading via your car battery too.

It’s a great way to recoup your layout quicker than you would normally, highly recommend something similar if you have it over there.

 

[Plutoman15]

Hard to make it pay when our generation charge is around 6 cents in my area. All in it is around 10-11 cents.

 

[jhalkias]

Hard to make it pay when our generation charge is around 6 cents in my area. All in it is around 10-11 cents.

Yeah, my total cost/KWH is a little less than 12 cents.

 

[dbsb3233]

Hard to make it pay when our generation charge is around 6 cents in my area. All in it is around 10-11 cents.

Same here. My rate is just a hair under 10 cents ($0.995). We do have a demand charge for the highest 15-minute period of the month, but that doesn't add a ton (~$8 in the summer A/C peak).

 

[engnrng]

We have an 8kW system. We got a 500$/kW rebate from our utility, just barely missing out on the 1000$/kW one they originally had. Our utility is a public municipal one, and we have one bill, a good rate, and they do net metering. In a good summer month, we can zero out our utility bill entirely. It's very nice. We also finagled the solar installers into dropping a 100A sub-panel into the garage and wiring up our 48A charger for free since they took a while to get around to our install.

Were you also able to take advantage of the 26% Federal Energy Tax Credit for 2020? It was 30% for 2019 and will be 22% in 2021.

 

[engnrng]

Suggest you calculate your % rate of return after all tax credits are taken off the total installed cost. It still may not be worth it to you, sounds like you are very efficient or low cost per kWh. Include in your calculations an estimate of what your EV will add to your costs. In my opinion, anything above 3% rate of return on invested net cost is worth it, 5% even better. Payback is a meaningless number, don’t know why the industry went that way 20 years ago, I guess salesmen back then did not think they could compete when tax free bonds were paying 5%.

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