Consumer Reports: Mach-E vs. Kia EV6

[Jimrpa]

We make the better toaster oven!


CR is such a waste.

I remember back when I worked at an appliance and electronics store years ago.

CR shoppers were the worst.

“I want this model, CR says it’s the best.”

……..that model is last years, it’s discontinued. But here is the identical one they just changed the model number.

“CR doesn’t like that one as much.”

…….. it’s identical to the one they liked last year.


My favorite was when they ranked two identical big screen TVs significantly differently. Literally the same model but one had a better speaker system and anti glare screen…….. it was ranked lower for sound and glare.

When you survey your readers after telling them what to buy……. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Best example was the Eagle Talon / Mitsubishi Eclipse identical cars rolling down the same assembly line. Literally, the only difference was badging. CR thought the talon was a heaping pile of burning dog feces. At the same time, they couldn’t sing the praises of the Evlipse loudly enough ?

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[DennisD]

Which is fine until the quality of said product manufacturers changes over the last few decades, but the opinions of the readers does not. Then the echo chamber becomes less accurate as time goes on.

Simple example- Japanese cars were way more reliable than American cars in the 80s and early 90s. That isn’t the case anymore.

But many people who got tired of hearing the cars they like suck stopped reading CR a long time ago. And the people who like hearing “your car choice is great” kept reading.

So while the reality has shifted, the results and biases of the readers are still there.

Echo chambers exist everywhere, but it helps to know what the sample group is. Asking a group of people in Wisconsin who the greatest NFL team is and I think you can guess the result.

CR can get it wrong from time to time. The MME was their car of the year and they soon realized that it wasn't what it was "cracked up to be". I just read their latest copy that came out last week and the ratings of the 21 and 22 were not stellar so I am guessing they changed their opinion and deemed it not as good as what they initially thought. In other words, they changed when the masses were reporting poor reliability of the MME.

They are suggesting that the 23's are rating better though.

I own a Driving School and I have had many different brands in the past years. The ones that were "junk" were the ones they suggested to not purchasing. The ones that were "great" were awesome cars for me.

Toyota's generally rate fairly well and I have had the best luck with that brand. My poorest brand car was the Chevy Cruze and Ford Focus. They were both junk and CR confirmed that as well. My Prius has given me no issues and CR has confirmed that as well.

Am I bias? Yes, I am bias towards cars that give me very few troubles compared to those that do. ?

 

[Mach1E]

CR can get it wrong from time to time. The MME was their car of the year and they soon realized that it wasn't what it was "cracked up to be". I just read their latest copy that came out last week and the ratings of the 21 and 22 were not stellar so I am guessing they changed their opinion and deemed it not as good as what they initially thought. In other words, they changed when the masses were reporting poor reliability of the MME.

They are suggesting that the 23's are rating better though.

I own a Driving School and I have had many different brands in the past years. The ones that were "junk" were the ones they suggested to not purchasing. The ones that were "great" were awesome cars for me.

Toyota's generally rate fairly well and I have had the best luck with that brand. My poorest brand car was the Chevy Cruze and Ford Focus. They were both junk and CR confirmed that as well. My Prius has given me no issues and CR has confirmed that as well.

Am I bias? Yes, I am bias towards cars that give me very few troubles compared to those that do. ?

To be clear, I’m not saying they’re always wrong, just that their bias shows.

And it really becomes obvious the more you know about a product how they get the details very wrong.

Perfect example is in your post above.

They rate the 2023 Mach E better than the 2021-2022.

It’s the same car, built with the same parts in the same factory and from all we know on the forums, has the same problems.

But CR clearly tells people to buy a 2023 vs 2021 or 2022.

I bet they left out the fact there are missing features in the 2023 that the older models have…..

 

[DennisD]

To be clear, I’m not saying they’re always wrong, just that their bias shows.

And it really becomes obvious the more you know about a product how they get the details very wrong.

Perfect example is in your post above.

They rate the 2023 Mach E better than the 2021-2022.

It’s the same car, built with the same parts in the same factory and from all we know on the forums, has the same problems.

But CR clearly tells people to buy a 2023 vs 2021 or 2022.

I bet they left out the fact there are missing features in the 2023 that the older models have…..

The 21 and some of the 22's are different than the 23.

They changed a significant part in mid 22. (I will let you guess which part that was)

That one part would make the 23 a more reliable car.

So to dig into the weeds, they are correct about the MME. It would be better advice for someone researching the MME and having no clue and purchasing a 23 over a 22.

 

[Mach1E]

The 21 and some of the 22's are different than the 23.

They changed a significant part in mid 22. (I will let you guess which part that was)

That one part would make the 23 a more reliable car.

So to dig into the weeds, they are correct about the MME. It would be better advice for someone researching the MME and having no clue and purchasing a 23 over a 22.

Except that they recalled that part and now we all have the same one again. So them advising people to steer clear of 21-22 is bad advice again.

It’s just one example, but trust me, there are many.

Seems they’ve figured out their business model. Cater to people who want to feel good about being told the products they like are superior. It’s clearly working.

Cars and reliability are super easy to pick on and your posts just show how it works.

Just look at any JD power 3 year dependability results in the last decade and you realize the extremely small difference in the number of repairs of a car towards the top of the list vs a car towards the bottom.

Hint- they both round to about 1 repair per car over that time period.

But the CR reader thinks their 1 repair on a Toyota is a “fluke” and the one repair on a Ford is “confirmation that CR was right!”

 

[DennisD]

Except that they recalled that part and now we all have the same one again. So them advising people to steer clear of 21-22 is bad advice again.

It’s just one example, but trust me, there are many.

Seems they’ve figured out their business model. Cater to people who want to feel good about being told the products they like are superior. It’s clearly working.

Cars and reliability are super easy to pick on and your posts just show how it works.

Just look at any JD power 3 year dependability results in the last decade and you realize the extremely small difference in the number of repairs of a car towards the top of the list vs a car towards the bottom.

Hint- they both round to about 1 repair per car over that time period.

But the CR reader thinks their 1 repair on a Toyota is a “fluke” and the one repair on a Ford is “confirmation that CR was right!”

That's too funny.

CR is reporting the pain in the ass part that failed and until recently, it was a time bomb waiting to fail. That is why the 21 and 22 gets the bad rating. It is because it was bad and the 23 remedied it (to a point). Because of the recall, that would justify it not being as good. Sure, you can fix it but why go through the pain in the ass to do it when you could buy a better one? Once again, CR has it correct by suggesting it is.................wait for it....................better.

CR doesn't give a rat's ass what the brand is. If the "brand" has a known liability, it will call them out like it did and will do.

The domestic brands get hit all of the time because they are crap in comparison. I had an 08 Vette that was junk minus the LS-3 Engine. CR confirmed that as well. Engine good-body hardware bad. GM made an inferior product. I like the looks of the Vette but it was crap for the most part hardware wise.

Guess what, the new Vette is rated excellent. Once again, CR is going on quality rather than past judgements. Old Vettes were crap and I am guessing the new ones improved. That just proves that domestic brands are capable and they can and do make a good product here and there.

CR is a much better guide than any Stealership or "friend" that has one. The bias will ooze out of most people that own one, but a research company that has no skin in the game can be much better trusted IMHO. Do they get it wrong once in a while, yes. Do they admit past mistakes, yes. (they changed the 21 and 22 rating to poor)

Btw, I have no "skin in the game" for CR but I do use them as a guide. (not the only guide) But it is helpful.

 

[Mach1E]

That's too funny.

CR is reporting the pain in the ass part that failed and until recently, it was a time bomb waiting to fail. That is why the 21 and 22 gets the bad rating. It is because it was bad and the 23 remedied it (to a point). Because of the recall, that would justify it not being as good. Sure, you can fix it but why go through the pain in the ass to do it when you could buy a better one? Once again, CR has it correct by suggesting it is.................wait for it....................better.

CR doesn't give a rat's ass what the brand is. If the "brand" has a known liability, it will call them out like it did and will do.

The domestic brands get hit all of the time because they are crap in comparison. I had an 08 Vette that was junk minus the LS-3 Engine. CR confirmed that as well. Engine good-body hardware bad. GM made an inferior product. I like the looks of the Vette but it was crap for the most part hardware wise.

Guess what, the new Vette is rated excellent. Once again, CR is going on quality rather than past judgements. Old Vettes were crap and I am guessing the new ones improved. That just proves that domestic brands are capable and they can and do make a good product here and there.

CR is a much better guide than any Stealership or "friend" that has one. The bias will ooze out of most people that own one, but a research company that has no skin in the game can be much better trusted IMHO. Do they get it wrong once in a while, yes. Do they admit past mistakes, yes. (they changed the 21 and 22 rating to poor)

Btw, I have no "skin in the game" for CR but I do use them as a guide. (not the only guide) But it is helpful.

The bias is from the readers, I.E. the readers that fill out the surveys.

You are a perfect example of that. “The domestic brands are crap in comparison……” ?

It’s sad that you still think that. You, like many CR readers, are stuck decades in the past.

Instead of biased reader opinions based data…….. I trust raw data when it comes to reliability

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

It’s not “here or there,” there is almost always a domestic brand or two in the top 5 most dependable. Been this way for a long time.

And again, the difference between the top and average is that they all round to about 1 problem per vehicle over a 3 year period.

It’s most definitely not a “great vs crap” situation.

 

[devmach-e]

They rate the 2023 Mach E better than the 2021-2022.

It’s the same car, built with the same parts in the same factory and from all we know on the forums, has the same problems.

But CR clearly tells people to buy a 2023 vs 2021 or 2022.

I bet they left out the fact there are missing features in the 2023 that the older models have…..

CR revises its ratings and recommendations as they get reader feedback, and from their own long-term testing. There's a reason that they do those surveys because some of these problems don't show their ugly little heads initially. They weren't wrong about their initial rating based on the data they had at the time. But as they got new data, they revised things. The 2021 models certainly do seem to have more problems reported on this forum.

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