Cybertruck Engineering Innovations

[Cosmacelf]

The 48V system is almost OK. There needs to be some provision for owners to use traditional 12VDC accessories. Truck guys need their radar detectors, CB Radios, winches, and snowplows. If you can't install these and other traditional equipment, then it ain't a real truck.

A lot of different car makers provide USB-C outlets now, so I suspect that will become a new standard across the industry. USB-C initial power spec provides 100W, newer spec provides 240W, both of which are comparable to what the cigarette lighter plug provided.

CT does have 120V receptacles, so you can plug something like this into it to get 12V power for now.

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[Cosmacelf]

Is this new to the CT? I thought Tesla vehicles always had very few modules compared to dozens up dozens of modules (50?) in traditional legacy cars (since carmakers basically duct tape different components together).

Yes, all Teslas now have a distributed module approach. So that part isn't new to CT.

BTW, in addition to 48V, CT also uses Gigabit Ethernet to replace some (all?) CAN bus communications, which is another huge systemic change, and also positions Tesla well for the future.

Interesting. They didn't go with the Hyundai approach. Not sure this device will magically make supercharging faster (doubt it... cables are amp-limited and stall is still 400V).

99.9% of all Tesla SC stalls are indeed 400V, but Tesla is rolling out V4 stalls/equipment that are 800V capable. It'll be a couple of years before there are enough of those to make much of a difference. The 800V architecture is for now just a cost savings measure to reduce wiring costs inside the car.

 

[ChehRob]

As someone wanting a CT I will list a few more complaints I have. Originally a 3 mm stainless steel exoskeleton was going to be featured. First a bit of automotive background: Most cars, when I was a kid (not quite a hundred years ago), cars and trucks had a chasse, frame, and body. An EV by compelling engineering realities has a skateboard comprising the batteries and connecting points for motors and wheels - kind of a chasse. So almost by very definition an EV will not have a real exoskeleton.

But that exoskeleton would replace the frame and body. Until we began reading about all of the marvelous giga-castings that the CT would use, two gigantic castings, one for the front and one for the rear - along with a lot of other framing members. That exoskeleton had become mostly just a body - perhaps providing some stiffening to the chasse and frame, by this time we now read it will be 1.8 mm at its thickest, but only in some places.

So genius engineer not only got the basic structure wrong, but he got the pricing wrong (inflation would have increased that $50K to just $60K). Also, no longer a six-passenger hunk of a car, along with an embarrassing inability to handle a fairly simple off-road segement. This later failure I am sure will be a software fix.

Not the car introduced, and not the price bandied about. I understand that Tesla engineers had warned Musk about all of this. But it is bullet proof - kind of.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

As someone wanting a CT I will list a few more complaints I have. Originally a 3 mm stainless steel exoskeleton was going to be featured. First a bit of automotive background: Most cars, when I was a kid (not quite a hundred years ago), cars and trucks had a chasse, frame, and body. An EV by compelling engineering realities has a skateboard comprising the batteries and connecting points for motors and wheels - kind of a chasse. So almost by very definition an EV will not have a real exoskeleton.

But that exoskeleton would replace the frame and body. Until we began reading about all of the marvelous giga-castings that the CT would use, two gigantic castings, one for the front and one for the rear - along with a lot of other framing members. That exoskeleton had become mostly just a body - perhaps providing some stiffening to the chasse and frame, by this time we now read it will be 1.8 mm at its thickest, but only in some places.

So genius engineer not only got the basic structure wrong, but he got the pricing wrong (inflation would have increased that $50K to just $60K). Also, no longer a six-passenger hunk of a car, along with an embarrassing inability to handle a fairly simple off-road segement. This later failure I am sure will be a software fix.

Not the car introduced, and not the price bandied about. I understand that Tesla engineers had warned Musk about all of this. But it is bullet proof - kind of.

Apparently the CT has greater torsion rigidity then hypercars. The Steel panels (their own formulation and not just regular stainless steel) is so strong that impact beams are not necessary. So even though they promised 3mm, if 1.8 will do and provide the extra benefit of reduce weight, isn't that a good thing?

Really, I see the early announcement like any other concept cars. Things change when it goes to production. I remember seeing the toyota FT-1 and was so excited, but then we ended up with a supra shell with BMW guts. Still a great car, but not the same as the concept.

It's up to the individual if the final product is still worth it. I can't say for the CT, because I don't like trucks, and the CT did not change that. So I wasn't excited then, and not now. But I appreciate the engineering that goes into it and hope it trickles down to their other cars.

 

[ChehRob]

Ghost - mostly fair comments, but it was not introduced as a concept car 'truck'.

 

[nvabill]

Ghost - mostly fair comments, but it was not introduced as a concept car 'truck'.

Do you think you will still buy one given the changes and increased price?

 

[ChehRob]

My kids and I would really enjoy the off-roading which I am sure will quickly get up to standards. Tesla is known for wide price swings in both directions. I even like the looks of the critter, which are still very close to what was shown in 2019. I am not taking it off my list, nor canceliing my 'order'.

In fact a big reason I likely will buy a used MME is a couple years down the road I will buy a new Lyriq, CT, or MME. Meantime I will have all of 2024 and much of 2025 to be reading reviews of all three of these cars.

 

[SWO]

These may not get much attention from the general public, but Cybertruck does have some significant engineering achievements that will hopefully trickle down to other vehicles:

• Fully Steer-by-Wire - The steering wheel is no longer connected to the wheels, first vehicle to market like this (Lexus is also working on this, but has't been released). It is like a force feedback joystick that causes the front wheels to move. The force feedback unit provides return-to-center torque and force feedback based on detected steering load. The lack of mechanical connection also allows a variable steering ratio to be used (based on speed), and the total steering rotation is less than one turn (vs. 3-4 turns for a regular car). This means hand-over-hand steering is no longer necessary since half a turn is full left or right angle. You can turn the steering wheel when the truck is off and the wheels don't move. The required safety redundancy (that allows complete removal of a mechanical connection) is provided by two separate electric motors on the same steering column, with triple redundant sensors. This is the steering rack, I've never seen one with two motors before:
• Fully 48V LV Electrical System - The low voltage system has completely switched from 12V to 48V. There are no 12V components in the vehicle (no 12V ports either, 120V and USB-C only). This is the first vehicle in the world to fully switch to 48V, the traditional automakers have been talking about this since the 1980's but haven't been able to make it happen yet. Hopefully this is a kick in the pants. Higher voltage means the wires can be made smaller, and is also more efficient. All three steering motors draw a combined 5 horsepower at full power, which would completely overload a 12V system (300 amps). With 48V, high output steering devices are possible. I assume there is a small 48V lithium battery powering the 48V system when the truck is off.
• Distributed CAN bus architecture - Everything in the vehicle supposedly runs off gigabit CAN bus network, down to individual lights. This means most wire runs are extremely short and only involve a pair of power and CAN bus wires, eliminating a lot of wiring. This is in contrast to the traditional method where a body control module located in one spot has dozens of wires that run to all parts of the vehicle from it. No more thick harnesses. This is what Jim Farley was talking about when eliminating wiring waste from vehicles. Like other current Tesla models, the Cybertruck also completely eliminates the need for fuses through intelligent power control, which is still unique in the industry.
• 400V/800V switchable pack architecture - The 123 kWh battery pack normally runs in 800V mode for driving, which makes it incompatible with existing Superchargers that only go to 450V. So Tesla invented a switch that splits the pack in two, making two 400V halves in parallel while charging. This works opposite of the Hummer EV which is normally 400V and switches to 800V for charging. It's unknown whether the Cybertruck will allow 800V CCS charging, if so it could break a charging speed record. Here's the switch:
• Exoskeleton - In addition to the battery pack, the exterior body panels are also structural. This means there is no internal structure or crash bars inside the doors, and it still passes side impact tests with flying colors. The steel is extremely strong, durable, and actually bulletproof.
• Quickest pickup truck ever - The Cybertruck has beat the Rivian R1T is is now the quickest pickup truck ever, with a 0-60 of 2.6 sec and 11.0 sec @ 119 mph quarter mile. This performance is available without special battery preconditioning, and apparently unchanged with repeated runs all the down to 33% battery, which is unheard of.
• Bidirectional charging - Tesla calls this Powershare, the on-board plugs can output 9.6 kW (same as F-150 Lightning), and will also support up to 11.5 kW of power output for V2H to power your home. This will require a Powerwall. Similar to F-150 Lightning Intelligent Backup but with higher total output and less integration equipment required (provided you have a Powerwall). It's unknown whether Tesla will allow the Cybertruck to operate in V2G mode with Autobidder software and sell power back to the grid when it's profitable. If this were possible you could make hundreds of dollars per month, since the Cybertruck has the capacity of 9x Powerwalls.
• Largest Windshield and Wiper - At 4 feet long, the blade is the longest ever produced. It is a single blade. The huge windshield is also the largest ever mass produced. The wiper actually changes angle slightly while driving to improve the aerodynamics at different speeds (a form of active aero). When the wiper is on, it parks at the bottom of the windshield instead.

I don't like the Cybertruck, but I do hope some of these technologies can trickle down to other EVs, especially the 48V electrical system and steer-by-wire. These should have been invented already and present on cars 10+ years ago.

Some thoughts:

1. Steer by wire: Having a variable ratio is honestly a little scary to me outside of a racing environment. Most folks already can't park and now we're going to make wheel turn variable? The only benefit I see is if if allows engineers to make the cabin safer by removing the steering column.

2. 48V. Probably already been mentioned, but there's other vehicles which have this. It's only new in the US. 2020: https://media.mbusa.com/releases/re...e-new-e-class-with-48-volt-technology-and-isg.

Also, not clear if the Cybertruck will use a 12V or 48V battery. If the latter, it means that jumpstarts will be a problem for the foreseeable future.

3. Distributed CAN. This will maybe save 50lbs of weight? There is a HUGE con to this though, as it creates far more opportunities for failures and makes troubleshooting them more difficult. You mention that the CAN Bus network will include "down to individual lights" - that means if there is a problem with an individual light, it could interrupt the signal to any modules on that network and result in you losing them.

4. 400/800V architecture - Isn't this what GM's Ultium packs already do?

5. Exoskeleton - as far as I know, this was more or less abandoned aside from marketing purposes - they're using their cast structure and body panels just like their other vehicles.

6. Bidirectional power - requiring a powerwall to power your house is a step backwards.

7. Largest windshield - ok...and?

 

[voxel]

2. 48V. Probably already been mentioned, but there's other vehicles which have this. It's only new in the US. 2020: https://media.mbusa.com/releases/re...e-new-e-class-with-48-volt-technology-and-isg.

Nope. All I've seen is references to mild hybrids which all use 48V motors.

I've yet to see ANYBODY post a link to a production car with 48V electronics (outside of the ISG + starter motor).

3. Distributed CAN. This will maybe save 50lbs of weight? There is a HUGE con to this though, as it creates far more opportunities for failures and makes troubleshooting them more difficult. You mention that the CAN Bus network will include "down to individual lights" - that means if there is a problem with an individual light, it could interrupt the signal to any modules on that network and result in you losing them.

It's not about weight. It's about a proper design. Legacy carmakers basically duct-tape a few dozen components together. It's why OTAs don't work.

 

[SWO]

It's not about weight. It's about a proper design. Legacy carmakers basically duct-tape a few dozen components together. It's why OTAs don't work.

It's absolutely about reducing weight (and cost associated with weight). Mach-E already uses (multiple) CAN Bus. Different modules from different manufacturers already talk to each other. What this does if I am understanding correctly is instead of having a single wire trace from (components might be different but concept is the same) headlights, fog lights, turn signals, etc. to the module that controls it - have a single wire with all of the components in series and actuation controlled by signal on the CAN Bus shared with various other components.

Farley already said in another interview that the Mach-E wiring harness is 70lbs overweight. Engineering it like this is how you reduce that weight.

 

[SWO]

Nope. All I've seen is references to mild hybrids which all use 48V motors.

I've yet to see ANYBODY post a link to a production car with 48V electronics (outside of the ISG + starter motor).

I assumed that they were using 48V for all/most of the auxiliaries - you're saying no? If not, I agree.

 

[voxel]

It's absolutely about reducing weight (and cost associated with weight). Mach-E already uses (multiple) CAN Bus. Different modules from different manufacturers already talk to each other. What this does if I am understanding correctly is instead of having a single wire trace from (components might be different but concept is the same) headlights, fog lights, turn signals, etc. to the module that controls it - have a single wire with all of the components in series and actuation controlled by signal on the CAN Bus shared with various other components.

Farley already said in another interview that the Mach-E wiring harness is 70lbs overweight. Engineering it like this is how you reduce that weight.

Weight reduction is a nice side effect.

Having a dozen module itself is the problem. Try updating each one via the sloooooow CAN-bus.

Look at the threads on Mach-E module updates... everybody has to track which version goes with another version of another module. It's a management + testing nightmare.

I assumed that they were using 48V for all/most of the auxiliaries - you're saying no? If not, I agree.

Yeah I don't know any consumer vehicle that is fully 48V. 48V is a well known voltage for the electric motor (and starter) on many hybrid-gas cars (see https://www.autoweek.com/news/a36331077/48-volt-hybrid-system-explained/). I think my Jeep has 48V e-torque booster... I know it has a second battery for sure as that is used for the start-stop system.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Musk and Munro discuss some of these engineering points:

 

[Mach-Lee]

Elon sent a document to all the other major automaker CEOs about how to design 48V systems. Jim Farley got his.

 

[Unobtanium]

I'm not really anti-Elon, nor am I really a fan, but when he throws shade, every now and then it's absolutely hilarious.

https://www.teslarati.com/ford-rece...2NkKmmDe1cVZPMcWeU9rdfz2ZzUeoycd3zObXh2JI-S_Y

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