Dead while driving.

[SnBGC]

that sounds like bullshit.
All the TSBs out there resolve issues, not cause them.

If the TSB instructs dealers to install new software than it could cause more issues then it solves. That has been my experience. Software updates on this car can be a horrible experience for some of us. Ford doesn't appear to know why either. Just a crap shoot I guess...

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[Stang68]

Both failures were under different circumstances, and the time proximity to DCFC may just be coincidental. The fact that the replacement HVBJB failed suggests that maybe the part is just not very reliable under any type of use.

Just throwing this out there, but maybe it's not the HVBJB that's the problem? Maybe something else is causing the HVBJB to fail?

 

[ghostmail]

I see this happening often on this forum. Is this the 2021, 2022 or both models?

 

[newmme]

Both

 

[BadgerGreg]

Just throwing this out there, but maybe it's not the HVBJB that's the problem? Maybe something else is causing the HVBJB to fail?

Good question. I have no doubt that the electrical engineers on the design team are looking at this. Given the cost of the HVBJB replacement (~$2,000 is my best guess based on what my service tech told me), Ford would be in bad financial shape if they had to replace a lot of these, especially given that it's part of the HV system that is warrantied for 8 years / 100K miles.

Based on my calculations, my two HV events have cost Ford a total of $7,500, including parts, labor, long-distance towing, and rental cars.

If it is something else causing the HVBJB to fail, it would good to figure it out soon.

 

[AllenXS]

Why do they seem to be all failing at the same time, both old and new?

 

[dtbaker61]

Why do they seem to be all failing at the same time, both old and new?

they are not ALL failing, and certainly not at the same time..... there's been what, maybe a dozen of so reported here in the forum, out of... 50,000 delivered to owners so far?

But the WHY part is a mystery still.

might have something to do with the number of DCFC charges, whether you push the thumb switch and hold for a few seconds for charge to stop gracefully before pulling the plug, might be bad sequencing of contacts opening or closing as the charge starts or stops.... might just be a badly specced contactor mfg with a poor failure rate... no real answers yet.

 

[dtbaker61]

If the TSB instructs dealers to install new software than it could cause more issues then it solves. That has been my experience. Software updates on this car can be a horrible experience for some of us. Ford doesn't appear to know why either. Just a crap shoot I guess...

the software updates *seem* to be fairly dependent on having the latest version of FDRS, and a trained Service crew for the non-OTA updates.

My Dealership (Capitol Ford in Santa Fe, NM) fortunately was willing to ask for extra help from Ford, got it, and was willing to re-try updates and TSB procedures until they actually got it done. In my case it took a couple tries for them to get thru 21p22, but I think we're good now.

I (thank goodness) have NOT had any 12v or HV issues.... and as a data point, I have NOT ever done a DCFC.... I've charged at home w mobile charger 99%, and a couple times in Taos on a (free) L2, and once on L2 in Alamosa, CO, and once on L2 in Del Norte CO

 

[scoopman]

Good question. I have no doubt that the electrical engineers on the design team are looking at this. Given the cost of the HVBJB replacement (~$2,000 is my best guess based on what my service tech told me), Ford would be in bad financial shape if they had to replace a lot of these, especially given that it's part of the HV system that is warrantied for 8 years / 100K miles.

Based on my calculations, my two HV events have cost Ford a total of $7,500, including parts, labor, long-distance towing, and rental cars.

If it is something else causing the HVBJB to fail, it would good to figure it out soon.

If at all possible, I bet they're going to try and figure out if they can address this thru software. I just wonder if they've figured out what's causing these failures -- and why this wasn't caught before they launched the car.

 

[AllenXS]

they are not ALL failing, and certainly not at the same time..... there's been what, maybe a dozen of so reported here in the forum, out of... 50,000 delivered to owners so far?

But the WHY part is a mystery still.

might have something to do with the number of DCFC charges, whether you push the thumb switch and hold for a few seconds for charge to stop gracefully before pulling the plug, might be bad sequencing of contacts opening or closing as the charge starts or stops.... might just be a badly specced contactor mfg with a poor failure rate... no real answers yet.

Okay, but only 12?
there is a Csp 22B08 for this. I assume it’s not usually for a small number?
What does surprise me though is that it seems like it’s all happening in the last few weeks.
Again that’s based on select reporting.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

Okay, but only 12?
there is a Csp 22B08 for this. I assume it’s not usually for a small number?
What does surprise me though is that it seems like it’s all happening in the last few weeks.
Again that’s based on select reporting.

CSP 22B08 has nothing to do with this. It is the customer facing side of TSB 22-2150 which is for being stuck on 1.7.1

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I only have ~3800 miles on my 2022 CA Route 1 E4X.

We've used DCFC a little over a dozen times in the 2 months we've had the car, mostly EA's charging stations, but at least one EVGo station. We keep the car plugged in at home on a 48A Charge Point and charged to 90%.

I've had no problems (so far).

I think the reason they didn't catch it before launch is because the incident rate is (from what we know) fewer than 60 out of 60,000 vehicles (0.1%).

It's very likely a hysteresis-like failure (current state of a system is dependent on the history of the system), not a failure solely because of what's happening at the moment of failure. If so, it would be very difficult to write the testing procedures to map out all of the possible routes to the failure.

The manufacturer of the four 500A relays in the HVBJB warranties them for >500,000 switches, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with them or the control logic.

On another thread we noticed that it doesn't seem like there's a secondary relay for arc suppression built into the circuit for these high amperage relays. Or maybe there's one suppression relay, but it's not abundantly clear.

It could be that there are at least four different failure modes (one mode for each high amperage relay), all implicating the HVBJB but also all for different reasons (charging, driving, shutting off or turning on the vehicle, etc).

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