Dealer says software updates aren't done unless needed

[Chuck]

I took my car into the dealer yesterday to get the 21P22 update, which they did I presume. So, I'm good with that. While there I presented them with a list of other updates available. I got the list from one of our own here on the forum based upon my VIN. Their response from the dealer was that Ford has told them not to do any of those updates unless something is broke because they might introduce problems.

I'm hearing a different story from folks on the Internet who say that Ford recommends doing all updates because they fix problems.

Which is the case? What does Ford recommend? Is it posted anywhere?

My take is that the dealer doesn't get paid to do those updates so they just don't want to do them for free.

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[benk016]

Your dealer is correct. Ford won't pay them for the time it takes to do the updates if Ford hasn't instructed the dealer to do them.

Ford in the past hasn't updated most cars once they were built unless you bought it in for an issue and there was a known fix in an update. Which is where the 21P22 program came in. It authorized the dealer to apply those and get paid for it.

Any other updates that get done are at the discretion of the dealership. You could offer to pay them for the time if you wanted it that bad.

 

[MnSparty38]

I’ll need to look into this more. I’m sure this is discussed heavily here.

(Internal dialogue) SMH at I need to deal with my dealership for software updates? No OTA from home?

 

[Lord Polymath]

We are Guinea Pigs in this transitional period.

 

[hybrid2bev]

I’ll need to look into this more. I’m sure this is discussed heavily here.

(Internal dialogue) SMH at I need to deal with my dealership for software updates? No OTA from home?

You can apply updates on your own.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ach-e-with-fdrs-alternative-to-forscan.10217/

 

[MnSparty38]

You can apply updates on your own.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ach-e-with-fdrs-alternative-to-forscan.10217/

Thanks. technical here, but the risk of ‘bricking my car’ gives me pause. All updates to systems aren’t smooth. (Sigh)

I really don’t want to deal with a dealership again, unless a warranty/collision item. Just surprised to see this I guess. Not enough diligence/research performed on my side.

 

[dtbaker61]

Your dealer is correct. Ford won't pay them for the time it takes to do the updates if Ford hasn't instructed the dealer to do them.

Ford in the past hasn't updated most cars once they were built unless you bought it in for an issue and there was a known fix in an update. Which is where the 21P22 program came in. It authorized the dealer to apply those and get paid for it.

Any other updates that get done are at the discretion of the dealership. You could offer to pay them for the time if you wanted it that bad.

How could Owners possibly know which updates they want... we have no idea what is fixed/enhanced in any particular module update.

I would HOPE that 'all available' updates could be applied when vehicles are in for Service/Recall as a pre-blessed policy from Ford-e. If they really want Owners to be happy, and have all the 'latest' fixes and enhancements that cannot be delivered OTA, this sure seems like a good reason to bring vehicles in for 10k mile checks and updates instead of oil changes and tire rotations.

 

[mpshizzle]

Thanks. technical here, but the risk of ‘bricking my car’ gives me pause. All updates to systems aren’t smooth. (Sigh)

I really don’t want to deal with a dealership again, unless a warranty/collision item. Just surprised to see this I guess. Not enough diligence/research performed on my side.

FWIW when I wrote that post I was very explicit on that point because I didn't want people coming at me with pitch forks. But now, months later, I have yet to hear about anyone causing serious issues with FDRS ?‍. Always a risk but so far FDRS seems to be pretty fool proof.

Correction.. i did see one problem caused by a bad update to job 2 cars IPC units. But that's Ford's fault for putting a bad update out

 

[Lord Polymath]

Thanks. technical here, but the risk of ‘bricking my car’ gives me pause. All updates to systems aren’t smooth. (Sigh)

I really don’t want to deal with a dealership again, unless a warranty/collision item. Just surprised to see this I guess. Not enough diligence/research performed on my side.

I'm the same way. I know it's possible to do updates myself, but I can't afford to brick a $60k vehicle. If an update did go wrong maybe you could just replace a specific module, but who knows how much they cost and how long it would take to get a replacement. Does doing your own updates void the warranty?

 

[Lord Polymath]

How could Owners possibly know which updates they want... we have no idea what is fixed/enhanced in any particular module update.

I would HOPE that 'all available' updates could be applied when vehicles are in for Service/Recall as a pre-blessed policy from Ford-e. If they really want Owners to be happy, and have all the 'latest' fixes and enhancements that cannot be delivered OTA, this sure seems like a good reason to bring vehicles in for 10k mile checks and updates instead of oil changes and tire rotations.

This is a very good point. Updates should/could be considered maintenance on a BEV, especially when some updates fix safety issues.

 

[benk016]

How could Owners possibly know which updates they want... we have no idea what is fixed/enhanced in any particular module update.

I would HOPE that 'all available' updates could be applied when vehicles are in for Service/Recall as a pre-blessed policy from Ford-e. If they really want Owners to be happy, and have all the 'latest' fixes and enhancements that cannot be delivered OTA, this sure seems like a good reason to bring vehicles in for 10k mile checks and updates instead of oil changes and tire rotations.

But they will be sending out any updates that actually make meaningful changes to the car OTA. That's why they have the OTA capability. Sure, its not fully working yet, but it's close.

Their goal is to not need dealer visits at all for updates. Some of these updates can take up to 9 hours to update 1 module. That ties up a stall and computer in a dealership for a whole day. And some dealerships only have 1 computer to preform these updates. This is why they don't just update everything when a car comes in.

If you look up any older Ford car, there will likely be updates to almost every module on the car, and 95% of the time that car will never see those updates, because its not needed.

 

[dtbaker61]

But they will be sending out any updates that actually make meaningful changes to the car OTA. That's why they have the OTA capability. Sure, its not fully working yet, but it's close.

Their goal is to not need dealer visits at all for updates. Some of these updates can take up to 9 hours to update 1 module. That ties up a stall and computer in a dealership for a whole day. And some dealerships only have 1 computer to preform these updates. This is why they don't just update everything when a car comes in.

If you look up any older Ford car, there will likely be updates to almost every module on the car, and 95% of the time that car will never see those updates, because its not needed.

who makes the determination of whether the update is meaningful, or needed? we don't even know what is IN them.

wouldn't it be smart, and nice, if Dealerships were pre-blessed to review 'available' module updates when a MME is in for service and proactively update whatever wasn't or couldn't be delivered via OTA ?

Our MMEs are nothing like old ICE vehicles.... The module updates for battery management, ABS, etc are all 'meaningful' as well as whatever enhancements they've promised.

 

[txaggies07]

If you have a specific issue with your car that is fixed by a software update they should be able to apply that update as a warranty claim. When I took mine in I had some issues with L2 charging in one location so they applied that module update specifically since I had an issue.

Longer term, most all updates should come as OTA.

 

[benk016]

who makes the determination of whether the update is meaningful, or needed? we don't even know what is IN them.

wouldn't it be smart, and nice, if Dealerships were pre-blessed to review 'available' module updates when a MME is in for service and proactively update whatever wasn't or couldn't be delivered via OTA ?

Our MMEs are nothing like old ICE vehicles.... The module updates for battery management, ABS, etc are all 'meaningful' as well as whatever enhancements they've promised.

Dealers have no way of knowing what an update does. All their software tells them is that there is a newer version available. That new version may just add some compatibility with a part that got revised, so they update other modules to be compatible with it. In that scenario, older cars would have no benefit from that at all.

The type of updates you describe, battery management, abs, etc, can all be sent OTA.

 

[dtbaker61]

Dealers have no way of knowing what an update does.

none of us do since there are no release notes....

All their software tells them is that there is a newer version available. That new version may just add some compatibility with a part that got revised, so they update other modules to be compatible with it. In that scenario, older cars would have no benefit from that at all.

The type of updates you describe, battery management, abs, etc, can all be sent OTA.

really?
none of the ones for csr21p22 have been sent to MY car via OTA.

Don't you think it would be reasonable 'policy' in our MMEs for Dealerships to be pre-authorized to check for available 'Service-Pak' updates which presumably are meaningful, and apply them when you have your vehicle on the rack? Let's say as part of your annual/10k mile checkup ?

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