Elon's Prediction

[DevSecOps]

It can be both Luck AND hard work.

You were lucky to be born with successful people around you and you should be proud of that.

I was born with a hard working Dad and he was/is very successful and I will be the first to admit that I am lucky because of that. I took the same skill set that he taught me and I applied that to my Company. I was lucky to start my Company in the wealthiest part of the State and I was lucky that the depression didn't exist in my lifetime and I am lucky that I wasn't born in the Civil War times.

You may not realize it, but you are one lucky SOB and that is not a negative thing. It is fact. ?

We define luck as different things. I am lucky to have the parents, grandparents, supportive family, amazing private catholic education etc that I've had. Luck in that sense is being grateful for what I have/had. I agree with that.

However, when it comes to employment and success I believe the definition of luck is "the success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions." This is where I disagree with the premise that you are espousing. No one ever came to my door offering me money. It was my actions, not luck that got me where I am. I took a lot of risk and worked a hell of a lot.

Sponsored

 

[kennethjk]

As much as I didn’t want to weigh in anymore, a few things.

not everyone has “seykhl”- the brains

a lot of people work extremely hard, have 2 or 3 jobs but never had an education. Hard work by itself doesn’t make one wealthy.

not everyone has access to college, private school or go to a public school without working or living in an area we wouldn’t want to be in.

a lot of people have college paid for them, others take out loans and some get scholarships.

non union people walk in everyday to their employer and threaten to leave during critical times and demand pay increases and the company has no choice to give in. Doesn’t bode well for the future but that is the way it is nowadays. I have seen partners do the same thing.

some people are lucky, I was, I also believe you make your own luck, it’s not always one or the other but a combination.

for those of you that have been successful on your own, great , congratulations but not everyone can do that for a number of reasons.

my dad who enlisted in WW2 after graduating high school never went to college (after the war he married and had to earn a living) but worked hard his entire life to make a living for his family and he gave me and my 3 siblings the head start he never had, college and growing up in an area that was safe and conducive to learn.

I don’t believe anyone is saying give the union everything they want. Fairness has to enter the negotiations. BTW I believe Korea, Japan and Germany all have unions representing their auto workers.

degrading people who do work for unions doesn’t do anything positive and getting upset at people for their thoughts is unfortunately the way things go nowadays

should everyone be made to be in the union, nah, probably not but if they get better benefits those not in the union should’t get those same benefits.

Without a middle class we are in trouble and have to figure out ways to be competitive, pay decent salaries and actually make stuff again.

otherwise it will be haves and have nots, not good long term.

 

[moparguy]

@Mach1E @ThatGuyLando @Maquis
40% was not pulled out of thin air. It's how much executive salaries went up since workers made huge contract concessions in 2009. That number was chosen to make people aware of that fact and to get our attention. As for the 4-day week, when you were a kid, didn't you to ask for more than you think you'll get, because you might get it? Labor negotiation is no different. Let's turn down the heat.

The CEOs lead companies, this communist/socialist ideas are becoming crazy these days, they have more liability, usually such positions lead companies to success, their leadership tend to increase profits, profits goes back to shareholders, all who own stocks of the company, get paid dividents, it also help the employees get better benefits with time.

The guy assembling my Mach E isn't a CEO, they don't have the same skills, Michigan is cheap, you can still buy homes for fraction of what it cost at other places in the country.

If they kick Farley tomorrow, should they go ahead and fire everyone else too?

 

[moparguy]

“More comfortable wages.” ?

That’s how you describe demanding a 40% pay raise along with working a 32 hour week (but getting paid for 40 hrs)?

The demands are absurd and will just result in future plant closures.

Just when we convince manufacturers to move jobs back in the US, the unions do their best to make them regret that decision.

It's hard to argue here, majority lack finance/economics 101.
Crazy demands like this are why we have so much kiosks everywhere now replacing workforce.

 

[kennethjk]

We define luck as different things. I am lucky to have the parents, grandparents, supportive family, amazing private catholic education etc that I've had. Luck in that sense is being grateful for what I have/had. I agree with that.

However, when it comes to employment and success I believe the definition of luck is "the success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions." This is where I disagree with the premise that you are espousing. No one ever came to my door offering me money. It was my actions, not luck that got me where I am. I took a lot of risk and worked a hell of a lot.

You may not have had luck in business but you did have a great head start over others, private education and a loving family.

I know people who came here with nothing but themselves and a shirt, their entire families wiped out in WW2. Never knew any relatives. I was lucky my great grandparents came here early enough to avoid being wiped out but all their families in Europe were lost forever.

some people overcome all of that, others can’t. Not everyone is created equal and not everyone should make the same either.

last post from me again, hopefully , LOL

 

[Mach1E]

It's hard to argue here, majority lack finance/economics 101.
Crazy demands like this are why we have so much kiosks everywhere now replacing workforce.

We can at least try!

Know what’s funny about the argument around “wages haven’t kept up with inflation and executives make 40% more than 2009?”

Both are true, however……. I just looked up cumulative inflation since 2009. The number is 43%!

That means that executive pay hasn’t kept up with inflation either. Maybe they should strike! ?

Make sure Farley only has to work 4 days a week too!
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2009?amount=1

 

[DevSecOps]

You may not have had luck in business but you did have a great head start over others, private education and a loving family.

I agree with that 100% and I think the current public school system is one of the biggest failures in this country (also union). I don't blame it all on the union however, parents have made schools into a PC nightmare. The high school that I attended in the late 90s early 2000's still allowed, and I think to this day, still allows for corporal punishment. I got hit on the hand many times with a cane, or had my hand squished by the grip of my history teacher. Looking back, those things made me into a better person. We had dress codes, rigorous college prep work and we couldn't just screw off.

On the other hand, my grandfather, who was very, very successful had no HS or college education. My conclusion is that it's less about the content of the education and more about the structure and discipline instilled in our youth through their time in school and family. I'm not gonna argue that because it can't be proven, it's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[kennethjk]

I agree with that 100% and I think the current public school system is one of the biggest failures in this country (also union). I don't blame it all on the union however, parents have made schools into a PC nightmare. The high school that I attended in the late 90s early 2000's still allowed, and I think to this day, still allows for corporal punishment. I got hit on the hand many times with a cane, or had my hand squished by the grip of my history teacher. Looking back, those things made me into a better person. We had dress codes, rigorous college prep work and we couldn't just screw off.

On the other hand, my grandfather, who was very, very successful had no HS or college education. My conclusion is that it's less about the content of the education and more about the structure and discipline instilled in our youth through their time in school and family.

We can disagree on private school, I went for a few years and hated it, big believer in public schools.

corporal punishment was handled by my dad, he never would have tolerated that in school, private or public.

He landed on Omaha Beach on D Day and was in the battle of the bulge. He traveled for work a lot so he wasn’t home during the week for many years but the words from my mother, “wait until your father gets home” would strike fear into our hearts, ?, I can laugh now, wasn’t so funny back then.

 

[DennisD]

I agree with that 100% and I think the current public school system is one of the biggest failures in this country (also union). I don't blame it all on the union however, parents have made schools into a PC nightmare. The high school that I attended in the late 90s early 2000's still allowed, and I think to this day, still allows for corporal punishment. I got hit on the hand many times with a cane, or had my hand squished by the grip of my history teacher. Looking back, those things made me into a better person. We had dress codes, rigorous college prep work and we couldn't just screw off.

On the other hand, my grandfather, who was very, very successful had no HS or college education. My conclusion is that it's less about the content of the education and more about the structure and discipline instilled in our youth through their time in school and family. I'm not gonna argue that because it can't be proven, it's just my opinion on the matter.

I taught at a Public School for over 30 years while running my Company. Many times I found that I had worked well past 60 hours in a week. Oh, and I went through a Public School. ? That being said, the Public Schools at many times HAD to take in the students that got kicked out of Private School. The Public Schools also taught the Special needs students because the Private Schools didn't take them. The Private Schools many times have entrance exams to get into their Schools i.e. the "failed" students didn't even attend them and the Public Schools HAD to take them as well.

So to sum it up, the Private Schools SHOULD be much better but many times, their top scores are not any better than many of the Public Schools top scores. It is not that the Private Schools are better, it is simply a fact that they weed out the trouble makers along with the less fortunate ones and they don't include them in the masses if you will. The Private School teachers usually get less pay than the Public Schools because they don't have Unions.

If you think the CEO's should get more money to attract better CEO's, the same holds true for Teachers. Let that one sink in a little.

Once the Private Schools take in the Special Needs students along with the low achievers, then we can talk. Until then, it is apples and oranges.

 

[mkhuffman]

Those who support what the unions are doing are putting our domestic car industry in jeopardy. Even if CEO pay is excessive, and I don't think it is personally, do we destroy our domestic automobile industry just to try to make it equitable?

When we have no remaining car factories in the United States, will you then be happy that Ford's CEO makes 100 times more than the average fast food worker? Or will you want something else to be done to punish him?

When our economy is totally destroyed and everyone but the politicians are poor, will you be happy then? That is what this mentality leads to.

People vote for politicians who try to force equality of outcome, instead of equality of opportunity, and then everyone becomes poor. Well, except for those who make the laws. They are never poor. Imagine that. The least valuable members of our society become the richest. Sigh.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Well for most that have "made it", many don't believe in luck. Yes, it takes hard work but if you were born in the early 1800's as a black man, you could have been the hardest working man in the history of this Earth and "luck" would have been all you had if you escaped slavery.

I know that is an extreme case but where you were born and when you born will usually play a LARGE factor in how well you do.

I have known many Farmers that went broke in the early 80's due to bad timing (luck) and some Farmers that were average made it because of the timing of when they sold grain etc.

Once again, hard work usually pays off but merely being born is a stroke of luck and being born in the USA or making it to the USA is like winning the lottery IMHO.

We can

As much as I didn’t want to weigh in anymore, a few things.

not everyone has “seykhl”- the brains

a lot of people work extremely hard, have 2 or 3 jobs but never had an education. Hard work by itself doesn’t make one wealthy.

not everyone has access to college, private school or go to a public school without working or living in an area we wouldn’t want to be in.

a lot of people have college paid for them, others take out loans and some get scholarships.

non union people walk in everyday to their employer and threaten to leave during critical times and demand pay increases and the company has no choice to give in. Doesn’t bode well for the future but that is the way it is nowadays. I have seen partners do the same thing.

some people are lucky, I was, I also believe you make your own luck, it’s not always one or the other but a combination.

for those of you that have been successful on your own, great , congratulations but not everyone can do that for a number of reasons.

my dad who enlisted in WW2 after graduating high school never went to college (after the war he married and had to earn a living) but worked hard his entire life to make a living for his family and he gave me and my 3 siblings the head start he never had, college and growing up in an area that was safe and conducive to learn.

I don’t believe anyone is saying give the union everything they want. Fairness has to enter the negotiations. BTW I believe Korea, Japan and Germany all have unions representing their auto workers.

degrading people who do work for unions doesn’t do anything positive and getting upset at people for their thoughts is unfortunately the way things go nowadays

should everyone be made to be in the union, nah, probably not but if they get better benefits those not in the union should’t get those same benefits.

Without a middle class we are in trouble and have to figure out ways to be competitive, pay decent salaries and actually make stuff again.

otherwise it will be haves and have nots, not good long term.

No one is degrading people in unions. It's more of the attitude that those who are more successful than me are lucky that we take offense to.

Unions are not inherently good or bad, it's based on leadership.

You don't need a college education to be successful. Tradesmen easily make 6 figures. Well into the middle class.

It's really not hard to be middle class with a small amount of effort.

 

[thekat03]

How to explain privilege to people who refuse to see it...

 

[ArthurDOB]

Most people are happy with their jobs and never try for more. Others don't have the desire to take risk. I don't believe that you can stop a dedicated individual. You may never be a millionaire, but self worth, drive and dedication at any income is all that matters. Anyone who has that doesn't complain about what others make.

A very polite way of ignoring the barriers people face and dismissing people's legitimate complaints about being underpaid.

 

[ArthurDOB]

Great, let's give everyone a 40% raise. Wonder how long it'll take for them to closed down all factories and ship jobs to Mexico or the Far East. Not like the Rust Belt isn't a thing. I've seen this movie before.

 

[mwtechy]

I was kinda surprised to see such a thread here so I read through about half the posts. I just wanted to point out a few things. Stock buybacks used to be illegal for a reason. These autoworkers have a right to be upset and demand more. I don't have any reason to doubt this information but 0.19% is an insanely low number of inside share holders https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/F/holders . This company doesn't appear to be for its workers or even for the USA anymore. I can say that based on who is holding the shares of the company alone. How this pans out will likely decide who benefits from government handouts...I mean incentives... to build up the EV market. If profit structures like this are not altered more towards a stakeholder (yeah I know sounds communist) structure before the next wave of automation hits every industry, I don't think anyone knows how that's going to look economic wise for lower/upper/or middle class when everyone loses purchasing power to even buy their products regardless of how cheap they are made. They should've invested in their workers. That and inflation means the workers have every right to demand more. They might not see a need for people they see as "robots"...but unless an entirely weirdly new market opens up free from potential impact of automation...I think most industries are going to have to drastically rethink how they view workers and what role they play in the company due to wider economic impact that has largely been ignored up till now. I don't honestly think there is a continued path ahead for profits and shareholders first mindset. I'm not really here to debate, just wanted to share my thoughts. Have fun.

Sponsored