Elon's Prediction

[ArthurDOB]

My goodness, how hard is it to get a straight answer??

The executive pay went up 40% (not adjusted for inflation).

How much (using the SAME math) did the union workers pay go up (not adjusted for inflation) in the same time period?

Here you go. Done with this thread. Sheesh!
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/09/27/gm-strike-mary-barra-pay-uaw-wages/3776066002/

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[DevSecOps]

So to sum it up, the Private Schools SHOULD be much better but many times, their top scores are not any better than many of the Public Schools top scores.

Your whole post completely ignored what I said about private schools. It's not about the education it's about the discipline and how to be a better person in society.

My conclusion is that it's less about the content of the education and more about the structure and discipline instilled in our youth through their time in school and family.

But I'm not going to have a conversation about public/private schools here. I think everyone should be educated regardless of what type of school they attend and I don't think educators should be preaching "barriers".

 

[Ghost Ryder]

We can disagree on private school, I went for a few years and hated it, big believer in public schools.

corporal punishment was handled by my dad, he never would have tolerated that in school, private or public.

He landed on Omaha Beach on D Day and was in the battle of the bulge. He traveled for work a lot so he wasn’t home during the week for many years but the words from my mother, “wait until your father gets home” would strike fear into our hearts, ?, I can laugh now, wasn’t so funny back then.

The public school systems have failed miserably. California spends 23K per student and the results are dismal. There are whole school districts where not one student is proficient when they graduate.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/ba2...verall funding (federal,of $23,791 in 2023–24.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I taught at a Public School for over 30 years while running my Company. Many times I found that I had worked well past 60 hours in a week. Oh, and I went through a Public School. ? That being said, the Public Schools at many times HAD to take in the students that got kicked out of Private School. The Public Schools also taught the Special needs students because the Private Schools didn't take them. The Private Schools many times have entrance exams to get into their Schools i.e. the "failed" students didn't even attend them and the Public Schools HAD to take them as well.

So to sum it up, the Private Schools SHOULD be much better but many times, their top scores are not any better than many of the Public Schools top scores. It is not that the Private Schools are better, it is simply a fact that they weed out the trouble makers along with the less fortunate ones and they don't include them in the masses if you will. The Private School teachers usually get less pay than the Public Schools because they don't have Unions.

If you think the CEO's should get more money to attract better CEO's, the same holds true for Teachers. Let that one sink in a little.

Once the Private Schools take in the Special Needs students along with the low achievers, then we can talk. Until then, it is apples and oranges.

Then you should be be for vouchers. Let the parents decide where their kids get educated.

 

[DennisD]

Your whole post completely ignored what I said about private schools. It's not about the education it's about the discipline and how to be a better human.



Public schools can't even take away a cell phone from a kid because it's a "safety risk". When I was in school we didn't have cell phones (but our pagers would get taken) and we weren't any less safe. Parents who send their kids to private schools, in part, do so because of the structure, the discipline and the willingness to let educators and people who have worked with kids take disciplinary matters into their own hands without question.



Half of the people who approach me for a raise want to work less for more money. That's a self imposed barrier. This isn't communist USA (yet), we don't have those barriers here. Anyone can get ahead of their past. I mentor college kids across this country and many come from some rough places. I'm glad you're not the mentor because it would be "sorry there's a barrier, you'll fail". I never tell anyone they have a barrier, I tell them to keep trying and achieving. It saddens me to see that your profession is a high school teacher and you're preaching "barriers".

I STILL teach at a Public School so the things I am saying are based on facts on the ground. I am not sure the last time you spent much time in a Public School but I am guessing that it has been a while?

Btw, I have the students place their cell phones in a cell phone caddy for every period. The discipline is stellar with very little issues. I teach at Elkhorn South High School and they (every year) produce the students with the highest ACT scores in the State of Nebraska Public Schools. If we were able to have an entrance exam to get into our School, we would have the highest score including all of the Private Schools with most likely fewer problems in the discipline category.

I get where you are coming from with discipline but once again, if we were able to kick the "bad" students out we too would have the best records for discipline. That is a meaningless comparison because the Private Schools don't usually do a better job, they just don't deal with it. We have amazing students with amazing teachers but we do get some trouble makers coming from the Private Schools or other Districts. Once again, if we are basing pay to performance I am guessing that the education is not only better well rounded at a Public School because of more offerings i.e. Elective Courses, but the Teachers are more tenured as well in many cases.

I also teach Drivers Ed to a cross section of students. My Company is Private so I see a unique perspective that cuts both ways. While I can't argue that there are many "good" students that come to my program from Private Schools, I also have many that come from Public Schools as well.

The only difference is this. The Private Schools don't let the struggling ones in and the Public Schools HAS to take them. The Public Schools have just as many "good" students as the Private Schools but the ratio is skewed in the Private Schools favor. So IMO, the student that tries and wants to succeed, do just as well after graduation in either format. Some of the most successful people have come from a Public Institute and they are still pumping out great people.

IMO, it has nothing to do with the teachings or climate per se but merely who you get and how you deal with it as a School.

So in conclusion, if you really think that Private Schools are better, we then need to up the pay for the "little" people so everyone could send their child to a Private School. It would be interesting to see how they faired if everyone got in. (cause they do such a good job)

 

[kennethjk]

The public school systems have failed miserably. California spends 23K per student and the results are dismal. There are whole school districts where not one student is proficient when they graduate.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/ba2023-24.asp#:~:text=The total overall funding (federal,of $23,791 in 2023–24.

And all of my kids went to public school and are very successful.

city School systems are an issue, put those same students in private school not sure if they would do any better, maybe, maybe not

 

[DennisD]

Then you should be be for vouchers. Let the parents decide where their kids get educated.

Once again, I would like to see how soon the Private Schools would "fail" if everyone (including the troubled youth) were able to attend them. All you would do in that scenario is make the Public Schools really bad and society would pay a heavy cost down the road. You do realize that we are all in the same boat so to speak?

You would just be passing the buck onto some other entity thinking that it would be better.

Good Luck!!

 

[ArthurDOB]

Half of the people who approach me for a raise want to work less for more money. That's a self imposed barrier. This isn't communist USA (yet), we don't have those barriers here. Anyone can get ahead of their past. I mentor college kids across this country and many come from some rough places. I'm glad you're not the mentor because it would be "sorry there's a barrier, you'll fail". I never tell anyone they have a barrier, I tell them to keep trying and achieving. It saddens me to see that your profession is a high school teacher and you're preaching "barriers".

I was done with this thread, but I have to respond to this arrogance. You're putting words in my mouth. If that's what you think I (or any other teacher for that matter) would say to a mentee, and think that I "preach" in the classroom rather than facilitate learning and let students decide for themselves based on factual information, then you really are as far out of touch as it appears. I encourage the students I teach to surmount any barriers they face and do everything I can to provide them with a quality education to hopefully provide them with some of the tools they need to do so, and to deal with people who do not seem to understand lives like theirs.

Now I'm done with this thread.

 

[DevSecOps]

Now I'm done with this thread.

I deleted what I said prior to your reply because I felt it was unnecessarily harsh and assumptive. You quoted it anyway.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Once again, I would like to see how soon the Private Schools would "fail" if everyone (including the troubled youth) were able to attend them. All you would do in that scenario is make the Public Schools really bad and society would pay a heavy cost down the road. You do realize that we are all in the same boat so to speak?

You would just be passing the buck onto some other entity thinking that it would be better.

Good Luck!!

The "bad kids" disrupt the good kids and prevent them from getting the education that they deserve. So Yeah, let the private school accept the vouchers and let the poor kids who want to learn have the opportunity to learn. Better to have all the "bad kids in one place."

 

[AKgrampy]

I STILL teach at a Public School so the things I am saying are based on facts on the ground. I am not sure the last time you spent much time in a Public School but I am guessing that it has been a while?

Btw, I have the students place their cell phones in a cell phone caddy for every period. The discipline is stellar with very little issues. I teach at Elkhorn South High School and they (every year) produce the students with the highest ACT scores in the State of Nebraska Public Schools. If we were able to have an entrance exam to get into our School, we would have the highest score including all of the Private Schools with most likely fewer problems in the discipline category.

I get where you are coming from with discipline but once again, if we were able to kick the "bad" students out we too would have the best records for discipline. That is a meaningless comparison because the Private Schools don't usually do a better job, they just don't deal with it. We have amazing students with amazing teachers but we do get some trouble makers coming from the Private Schools or other Districts. Once again, if we are basing pay to performance I am guessing that the education is not only better well rounded at a Public School because of more offerings i.e. Elective Courses, but the Teachers are more tenured as well in many cases.

I also teach Drivers Ed to a cross section of students. My Company is Private so I see a unique perspective that cuts both ways. While I can't argue that there are many "good" students that come to my program from Private Schools, I also have many that come from Public Schools as well.

The only difference is this. The Private Schools don't let the struggling ones in and the Public Schools HAS to take them. The Public Schools have just as many "good" students as the Private Schools but the ratio is skewed in the Private Schools favor. So IMO, the student that tries and wants to succeed, do just as well after graduation in either format. Some of the most successful people have come from a Public Institute and they are still pumping out great people.

IMO, it has nothing to do with the teachings or climate per se but merely who you get and how you deal with it as a School.

So in conclusion, if you really think that Private Schools are better, we then need to up the pay for the "little" people so everyone could send their child to a Private School. It would be interesting to see how they faired if everyone got in. (cause they do such a good job)

I am not sure so I should not assume but my guess is he went to Catholic School. In any case they are not public and they will take in anyone not just the “best”. I do recognize that some and probably most private are eliteist. One thing I know for a fact is my grandson goes to public school and there are kids vaping in the restrooms and some even in the classroom and even doing dope. I believe what @DevSecOps stated was it was the discipline that made the difference. It sounds like your school is well disciplined (respect both ways not necessarily corporal.) I wish my grandkids were attending a school like that!

 

[AKgrampy]

I agree with that 100% and I think the current public school system is one of the biggest failures in this country (also union). I don't blame it all on the union however, parents have made schools into a PC nightmare. The high school that I attended in the late 90s early 2000's still allowed, and I think to this day, still allows for corporal punishment. I got hit on the hand many times with a cane, or had my hand squished by the grip of my history teacher. Looking back, those things made me into a better person. We had dress codes, rigorous college prep work and we couldn't just screw off.

On the other hand, my grandfather, who was very, very successful had no HS or college education. My conclusion is that it's less about the content of the education and more about the structure and discipline instilled in our youth through their time in school and family. I'm not gonna argue that because it can't be proven, it's just my opinion on the matter.

I am fairly certain it can be proven that many of the issues we are facing as a nation can be traced back to a breakdown in home life. By that I just mean supportive and encouraging family members that encourage success in school and life. Too many kids do not have that kind of support. I hate it when people call it luck because it has nothing to do with random good fortune.

 

[Mach1E]

Here you go. Done with this thread. Sheesh!
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/09/27/gm-strike-mary-barra-pay-uaw-wages/3776066002/

Sheesh, still doesn’t answer the question.

All it says is they were about 10% off inflation in 2019.

Again……

what was the amount of increase from 2009 to 2023 compared to the 40% increase the executives got??

I don’t want to have to extrapolate. But if I did….. I know inflation was 43% over that time period. If 10% off, they would be around a 33% raise vs executives who got 40%.

How does this equal them asking for another 40%?? Stinkin fuzzy math.

 

[DennisD]

I am fairly certain it can be proven that many of the issues we are facing as a nation can be traced back to a breakdown in home life. By that I just mean supportive and encouraging family members that encourage success in school and life. Too many kids do not have that kind of support. I hate it when people call it luck because it has nothing to do with random good fortune.

If one student is born with Parents that are supportive and highly successful and another student is born to a crack addict and has neglected this student since birth, you are saying "luck" has nothing to do with that?

That is interesting. ?

Now don't get me wrong, the student born to the "successful" parents may end up a crack addict and the student born to a crack addict parent may end up very successful, the ODDS are not in their favor. Gambling is associated with odds as well. When one hits a jackpot, I am sure you would view them as coming from a good home life as well. ?

Once again, it is BOTH luck and hard work along with good fortune, having supportive parents etc..

Now back to the UAW situation.

If the job you are working on has not kept up with inflation but the boss you are working for has exceeded that bar if you will, it does not matter the amount of "work" one does in that situation. You could come from the best home with the most supportive parents but at the end of the day, the job that you have has not kept up with inflation.

The last time I checked, striking is part of the free market. If the striking workers want to "work hard" to get better pay, then I say go for it. If the owner of said Company wants to shift some money from the boss to the workers, they have that right. If the owner of the Company is also the boss, then they have a hard choice.

That is what a free market is all about. Making hard choices and hoping "luck" goes your way. Working hard is just part of the equation my friend. ?

 

[DennisD]

The "bad kids" disrupt the good kids and prevent them from getting the education that they deserve. So Yeah, let the private school accept the vouchers and let the poor kids who want to learn have the opportunity to learn. Better to have all the "bad kids in one place."

A private security guard has had no issues in the Suburban Mall they were protecting and the cops in the downtown area has had issues with crime etc.

Using your analogy, let us shift funds from the Police in the downtown area to the Suburban Mall "cops".

I already feel safer.

I think you have found the best solution. Shift money from poor performing Districts to a few select Private Schools. Now granted, they (Private Schools) are almost full now but I am sure we could squeeze in a few "poor" students and subsidize the wealthy parents (i.e. Suburban Private Security) and the situation is solved.

Great Plan. When can we start.

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