Enphase Introduces Bidirectional EV Charging Solution

[VegStang]

I gotta like the idea of getting a full charge at work for free then bringing it home and charging a home battery up but of course I wouldn't do that because there would be a few lost electrons in the process... ?

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[AlpaChino]

I gotta like the idea of getting a full charge at work for free then bringing it home and charging a home battery up but of course I wouldn't do that because there would be a few lost electrons in the process... ?

Are you also the type of guy to hang paper towels up to dry to reuse them?

 

[dtbaker61]

https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional

https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/enphase-enph-introduces-bi-directional-ev-charging/


I know there are no guarantees, but it would be awesome if this turns out to be an option.

the charger and charger/ev communication is one step, but installing auto/controlled-transfer switch to isolate from grid is 'outside requirement'. Then, if you are running off vehicle, thru 50 amp charger circuit, how do you manage load shedding on the house load side when running off vehicle?

 

[dtbaker61]

Are you also the type of guy to hang paper towels up to dry to reuse them?

I am
...and wash zip-lock bags

but I love the idea of keeping transfers all-dc.... solar PV at 400+volts DC, straight into local DC 400+ batteries, straight in/out of EV on board batteries.... all DC would be best.

 

[dtbaker61]

This is so true! My utility company won’t pay us a cent for any electricity we send to the grid. We get “electricity credits” that can be used during the winter. During annual true-up, they just wipe our balance of credits to zero. ??

most utilities that do annual true-up pay at least 'avoided cost' at true up, which is basically wholesale rate... around $0.045/kwhr in NM

 

[Hammered]

The MME and the lightning have the same core features that allow HV back feed. It's the same plug that you get at a DC fast charger. The process mechanically for removing electrons is the same for putting them in, the car just connects the HVB to the HV charging port. That means any vehicle that can DCFC, can have its battery tapped. That's the easy part though.

Ford won't let the MME use the lightnings back-feed charger for some reason. With the HVDC, it can be connected to the same solar devices capable of handling 500v arrays. There's some rather inexpensive options out there that'd happily feed on the sub 400 volts of the battery.

 

[dtbaker61]

The MME and the lightning have the same core features that allow HV back feed. It's the same plug that you get at a DC fast charger. The process mechanically for removing electrons is the same for putting them in, the car just connects the HVB to the HV charging port. That means any vehicle that can DCFC, can have its battery tapped. That's the easy part though.

Ford won't let the MME use the lightnings back-feed charger for some reason. With the HVDC, it can be connected to the same solar devices capable of handling 500v arrays. There's some rather inexpensive options out there that'd happily feed on the sub 400 volts of the battery.

yup, there are a lot of hybrid inverters out there now that will use the 400+ vDC... but the communication protocol has to be disclosed and standardized to allow bi-directional. Also I dunno if there are any diodes or whatever in the MME PREVENTING bi-directional current ?

 

[Fremont Kid]

I investigated the details of using the Ford F150 Lightning to power a home during power outages versus a generator. Costs are way too high for me considering the low cost of a Generac whole-house generator. Solution of photovoltaic panels charging a battery/storage system then exchanging that power between a vehicle and house is the most efficient and advantageous.

Before getting too excited be sure to consult professional electricians. An automatic transfer switch that is professionally installed is required so that electricians trying to restore power are not electrocuted. Also, will need a system to direct power appropriately. My main point is that extra costs will occur and these need to be factored into the cost benefit analysis.

I am confident some smart engineers will continue to improve the overall design. However, the electrical service design for most homes will not allow such a turnkey system without well planned changes and devices.

 

[Hammered]

yup, there are a lot of hybrid inverters out there now that will use the 400+ vDC... but the communication protocol has to be disclosed and standardized to allow bi-directional. Also I dunno if there are any diodes or whatever in the MME PREVENTING bi-directional current ?

No, no point. The BECM monitors everything. I want to get another HVBJB and modify it to quietly allow the HV connection points to be turned on as desired. Essentially as long as the vehicle is in 'run', the charging contactors could be turned on energizing the port. The vehicle does monitor the contactor's output state, so the mod would require N/C relays to blind its monitoring of those vsense connectors.

 

[Hammered]

I investigated the details of using the Ford F150 Lightning to power a home during power outages versus a generator. Costs are way too high for me considering the low cost of a Generac whole-house generator. Solution of photovoltaic panels charging a battery/storage system then exchanging that power between a vehicle and house is the most efficient and advantageous.

Before getting too excited be sure to consult professional electricians. An automatic transfer switch that is professionally installed is required so that electricians trying to restore power are not electrocuted. Also, will need a system to direct power appropriately. My main point is that extra costs will occur and these need to be factored into the cost benefit analysis.

I am confident some smart engineers will continue to improve the overall design. However, the electrical service design for most homes will not allow such a turnkey system without well planned changes and devices.

The lightnings are easier to use as they've got the PPOB with a 30a 240v output. I backfeed w/ my powerboost which has the same 7.2kw inverter in it.

 

[dtbaker61]

I investigated the details of using the Ford F150 Lightning to power a home during power outages versus a generator. Costs are way too high for me considering the low cost of a Generac whole-house generator. Solution of photovoltaic panels charging a battery/storage system then exchanging that power between a vehicle and house is the most efficient and advantageous.

Before getting too excited be sure to consult professional electricians. An automatic transfer switch that is professionally installed is required so that electricians trying to restore power are not electrocuted. Also, will need a system to direct power appropriately. My main point is that extra costs will occur and these need to be factored into the cost benefit analysis.

I am confident some smart engineers will continue to improve the overall design. However, the electrical service design for most homes will not allow such a turnkey system without well planned changes and devices.

an 'automatic' transfer and load-shedding system can get expensive in a hurry.

'emergency backup' with manual disconnect/transfer and manually turning off non-critical circuits does not HAVE to cost a lot..... but it does carry risk if procedures are not followed.

In all likely scenerios, if a person forgot to disconnect and powered up a generator before isolating from grid.... the generator would blow a fuse before energizing the neighborhood transformer.

 

[ab13]

Looks like it’ll be a tortoise race between the Wallbox Quasar 2 and new announcements.

Emporia is working on one too.

https://www.emporiaenergy.com/how-the-emporia-v2x-charger-works

 

[Polar]

The lightnings are easier to use as they've got the PPOB with a 30a 240v output. I backfeed w/ my powerboost which has the same 7.2kw inverter in it.

Completely different beast. There is no onboard inverter involved in V2H/G at all. It’s all handled off board just like DC LVL 3 charging.

 

[Hammered]

Completely different beast. There is no onboard inverter involved in V2H/G at all. It’s all handled off board just like DC LVL 2 charging.

Yes and no. V2G takes the HVB (via the charge port) and converts it into 240v twin pole via an inverter. That is, for all intents and purposes, the exact method how the hybrid and lightning F150s work. The difference is that they carry water cooled inverters onboard making them robust and silent.

I'm of the opinion that the vehicle should already be able to put out 20kW of 240v 2 pole power. The traction inverters are 3 phase and can output 1, 2, or 3 phase power. With a couple extra parts they could have piped that to the CCS port.

I expect to see such a capability in cyber truck natively. Tesla has been dragging their ass on doing such so they can sell you a power wall, but they're starting to understand it's a battery constraint issue (as well as switching their stationary gear to LFP first)

The lightning's approach is both right, and wrong. Properly configured the lightning has both 7.2kW and 2.4kW HV to 2 pole AC inverters. That's 10kW worth of output everywhere the truck goes. It doesn't however use that for its V2G configuration. It taps the HVB via CCS to power an offboard wall mounted inverter (ends up being $7k+ installed and ONLY works with the lightning).

 

[RedStallion]

Very expensive solution for something that one may need once in 5-10 years. It's cheaper to take a European vacation every time blackout happens than pay for this system.
If you live in an area where outages happen every year you probably already have (or should have) a diesel/natural gas generator, which cost nothing compared to battery powered solution.

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