EV Tires Causing Increased Pollution

[Mach1E]

Exactly.

The crux of the matter is not just that average temperature goes up - it's that climate patterns change significantly because there is more heat energy in the atmosphere. Sure areas at or near the equator may end up bing uninhabitable to humans, but the locations of arable and arid lands will also change. Some rich farmland of today will become marginal within decades. Areas once unlikely to have severe weather in the past will have severe storms on a regular basis. Miami routinely has flooding in clear weather with no storms present. Two major insurers have pulled out of Florida already.

As for Hybrids: they only reduce pollution over an ICE if you predominantly drive them on electricity like a BEV. They have far more complex transmissions, require more maintenance, and STILL contribute 75% as much "tire pollution" as a BEV. Did this study take that into account?

Boil?
Uninhabitable?

Where are you getting your info from?

This type of fear mongering does no good for the environmentalist cause…….because people won’t believe you if you exaggerate.

I said this a couple decades ago when I took an environmental ethics class in college and still believe it today:

Environmentalists need better marketing and they got the message wrong. Telling people their great grandkids are all going to die because it’ll be 2 degrees warmer in 100 years……… nobody cares.

Talk about cause and effect today instead. Man made global warming? Hard to prove how much of a difference it makes.

Focus should have been on smog and air quality instead.

Smog- 100% manmade, 100% preventable and impacts me….. now.

Oh and guess what is a great side effect of smog prevention? Less CO2!

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[DevSecOps]

But the technologies you list are carbon based?

True, I shouldn't have said carbon based. But if carbon based is 0 emissions like the Omega 1, why would it matter much? I've always thought that eFuel would be a great drop in replacement for gas because it uses the current infrastructure already in place. I know there's challenges with cost, but I have a feeling that if there was a big enough push for it they would find ways to make it more economical.

 

[Mach1E]

No one is saying changing cars will immediately save the planet; it's merely a step within a larger framework.

Agreed.

That was my point as well. It’s not an either or situation.

That’s also kinda the point of the article, gotta take everything into account.

And that includes tire wear. Which is why they suggest that “smaller and lighter” should be a goal. IE, not a 9500 lb 1000hp Hummer EV. ?

 

[superdave80]

Focus should have been on smog and air quality instead.

It was, and we reduced it to the point where it isn't as big an issue as it was in the past. If 'smog' was the rallying cry to reduce fuel usage, most people at this point would just shrug and keep driving.

 

[timbop]

I 100% agree with your other points, but I don't think it's exactly fair to say that hybrids have far more complex transmissions or require more maintenance. At least for the series-parallel hybrids like Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive system (and Ford who licensed that tech from them), those transmissions are incredibly reliable. If anything, I'd say they also require less maintenance since there's less overall engine wear, and the planetary gearset of that transmission type involves fewer moving parts than a regular torque converter. Yes, it's technically a more complex system (I'm lumping PHEVs and HEVs together since PHEVs are just hybrids with comparatively giant batteries), but most of the complexity is handled in software, rather than hardware.

I think PHEVs are a great stepping stone for some types of people (unsure about charging, need to repair trombones across the country on a daily basis, etc.). The only problem is the good ones are either unobtanium at this point (RAV4 Prime), or have gone out of production (Chevy Volt).

I meant that PHEV powertains and transmissions are more complex than a typical BEV's inline motor with fixed ratio reduction gear. And yes, PHEV's are a nice stepping stone assuming one drives them on electricity and didn't just buy one to get the incentive on a car they never charge.

 

[MellowJohnny]

It still said that the Tesla had the lowest impact.

Did they? The study said it was better, but "not significantly". Meaning "insignificant". Not a glowing endorsement for buying a BEV....

But again, what’s wrong with their conclusions from an environmentalist perspective?

Because they draw their conclusion on biased, unbalanced reporting, that's why.

I’m not shocked at all that they think a “smaller and lighter” PHEV is better for the environment.

Are they? Other studies have said they are not...

You are seeming to live in a world of absolutes. Just because it’s “pro PHEV” doesn’t make it “anti-BEV.”

Unless all the examples they use specifically paint BEVs in an unflattering light, leading the reader to draw only one conclusion. If you compare "A" with "B", and all your examples show how "A" is inferior to "B", you are "anti-A".

I'd much prefer to read a well-balanced report, with pros and cons of each, to let me decide what I think, rather than have the author tell what to think.

Read it again and tell if it's balanced.

And not once did I address you directly, nor did I make any assumptions about how you think or where you stand. You've done it twice now. I guess you have me all figured out, then eh?

 

[hartmms]

It's hard to find honesty in journalism anymore.

I think some part of it is the lack of analytical thinking. We technical folks are trained to approach problems analytical and to remove all emotion, empathy and virtue signaling from that work.

I also think there is a certain "death scrolling" going on: even with sufficient or good solutions, folks like to pile on negative effects. BEV advocate: "Well, we are still screwed because our EVs emit more brake dust and rubber pollution". I see this negativity coming from my teenage and young adult children a lot. I'm worried social media and "always online, where negativity rules" in influencing their behavior.

 

[Socalsp3]

the tire wear is negligible compared to the 5+ quarts of engine oil every 5k miles an ICE uses

 

[GreaseMonkey]

the tire wear is negligible compared to the 5+ quarts of engine oil every 5k miles an ICE uses

But what about brake dust? Bugs and birds? Other stuff we’ll dream up over time?

 

[mkhuffman]

.
Some rich farmland of today will become marginal within decades. Areas once unlikely to have severe weather in the past will have severe storms on a regular basis.

Don't forget that NYC will be under water by the year 2000. Or in 10 years, whatever works best to mandate a regulation.

I just want to emphasize that my MME has a carbon footprint of 5.2. That is so much better than anything else. It is so good, I can fart all day and still be ahead of the plebs driving a ICEV.

 

[timbop]

Don't forget that NYC will be under water by the year 2000. Or in 10 years, whatever works best to mandate a regulation.

I just want to emphasize that my MME has a carbon footprint of 5.2. That is so much better than anything else. It is so good, I can fart all day and still be ahead of the plebs driving a ICEV.

C'mon man. No actual real study ever said NYC would be under water in 2000.

In the 1990's CFC's were outlawed because the ozone hole over the southern hemisphere was getting larger at an accelerating pace. Since the ban it has been getting smaller for decades.

In 1965 Clair Paterson raised the alarm that atmospheric lead levels were far higher than they were before 1900. Lead was banned in paint, gas, and other things - and now the atmospheric lead level has almost returned to pre leaded gasoline levels.

The fact that CO2 acts as a greenhouse gas was discovered in the 1800's. Scientific American published an article about its effect in 1938. Simple math based on the known amount of fossil fuels burned tells you how much UNnaturally occurring CO2 goes into the atmosphere from humans, and the correlation between projections from those values and observed conditions has been seen since the 1950's. The hottest 5 years ever recorded have happened in the last 10, with this year saying "hold my beer".

Millions of people die every year from natural causes. Does that mean that no one is murdered? Of course not; to find out if a death is murder or natural causes you have to look at the evidence. In this case our fingerprints are all over the murder weapon.

 

[RedStallion]

Yes, the tire wear is really not good on my friend's Tesla and an owner of a Hyundia reported spending over $1,000 for a new set of tires after 15,000 miles.

I guess the cost of replacing tires eats up all the saving from not buying gas. Also the increased costs of road repairs will drive the registration fees since the surcharges on gasoline doesn't bring enough revenues.
I've just recently read that insurance companies either dropping coverage or raising insurance premiums due to high cost of repairs of EVs. Don't remember where I saw the article saying that a simple fender bender repairs of a Rivian amounted to over $40k.
I wonder if there is some reputable site that has realistic total cost of ownership.

 

[RedStallion]

Don't forget that NYC will be under water by the year 2000. Or in 10 years, whatever works best to mandate a regulation.

I just want to emphasize that my MME has a carbon footprint of 5.2. That is so much better than anything else. It is so good, I can fart all day and still be ahead of the plebs driving a ICEV.

There is a solution ?

 

[RedStallion]

It was a joke. And I agree with you. I purchased mine because it is fun, and I hate changing oil and all the other maintenance stuff ICE vehicles need. Now at over 30,000 miles and just realized I forgot to change the cabin air filter. That is the only maintenance item required. If I had an ICE vehicle, I would have been through multiple oil changes already.

It is a great car, isn't it!

When I tried to schedule service on the Ford dealership web site, they offered changing oil. ?

 

[RedStallion]

There is an old saying: There are lies, damn lies and statistics. One case years ago, for example, a study was done of number of churches and juvenile delinquency and found high number of churches in cities with high delinquency rates. Therefore, churches cause juvenile delinquency.

In most articles, there is a reference to some well accepted fact. That tends to provide credibility to the rest of the article. "Well if that's true, then the rest must be true too."

To stop importing oil we just need to stop eating chicken. I personally like beef more ?

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