Extended Range EV or Battery EV

[Kamuelaflyer]

You have only gone below 50% charge once in 4 years? WOW! I have gone below 50% twice and I have only had the vehicle for a week!

They’re an outlier. Most folks go below 50% routinely. People may not run it down to electron fumes, but below 1/2 full? Absolutely.

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[Maui]

I routinely drive 200+ miles to a client site. People ask me about charging and I tell them it charges faster than I can go to the bathroom. But I am not charging to full either, I am getting enough to safely get to the next stop or destination. note I am driving highway speeds in the summer the car can get all the way, in the winter it needs at least one stop, but so do I.

when I bought it, yes I had anxiety but once I drove it on longer drives that went away. Just like with a gas car. You get a feeling for how far it can go when the light comes on.

i would drive this car anywhere, but I would plan first. But there are places in Texas you have to plan for gas as well. There are several well known dead service area in Texas than can exceed 70 miles without anything. You learn, you adapt. Not an issue.

 

[Mach1E]

They’re an outlier. Most folks go below 50% routinely. People may not run it down to electron fumes, but below 1/2 full? Absolutely.

I don’t think we know what “most folks” do.

I bet Ford knows. Would be interesting to see the data.

I also wonder if those going below 50% even have to. Is it just because they like to charge less frequently or because they actually use more than 50% in a single day or trip?

Even more interesting would be interesting to see how many get below 20 or 10%.

So many care about a 270 vs 300 mile range (10%) but curious if those same people ever even use that last 10%.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don’t think we know what “most folks” do.

Among the mach-e and other EV owners I know around here, no one routinely charges at 50%. Most wait till it's lower and they need a charge. Charging around here is a topic of conversation, given the dearth of public charging and the 51¢ base rate for electricity. YMMV

I also wonder if those going below 50% even have to. Is it just because they like to charge less frequently or because they actually use more than 50% in a single day or trip?

Neither condition really matters tbh. What's the practical point of frequent charging if your typical usage is 30 to 40 miles a day? For me, that's about 10% in around-town use (We have really cool rolling hills here). I'll charge up maybe after day 6 unless I have something planned. If I have a series of trips planned to Kona or Hilo, then I'll charge up before the first and after the third.

Now, I think it'll be a different story if we're talking EREVs. I think folks are going to be surprised at just how small those HV batteries will be. I think we're looking at LFPs that are less than half the size of the current mme HVB. Perhaps substantially less. Then charging at 50% SOC would make a lot more sense. That's one reason I think most folks buying an EREV will end up just not charging at all. It's easier just to gas up and let the ICE take care of things.

 

[Jimrpa]

I don’t punch. I generally just growl.

You’re too cute to growl. Not sure about your human though. Hopefully, you keep him on a short leash

 

[Jimrpa]

If I’m driving around locally, I almost always have a full tank of electrons because I charge every night. If I’m roadtripping, I usually like to charge when I hit 20% (sort of like buying gas when you’re down to a quarter tank). I’m not a fan of “rolling into the gas station on fumes”. The navigation system will certainly let you get close to that if you want. And I suspect Ford “pads” that battery percentage a tiny bit, just as a gas gauge on “E” still has a small amount of fuel.

 

[Sikkun]

If I’m driving around locally, I almost always have a full tank of electrons because I charge every night. If I’m roadtripping, I usually like to charge when I hit 20% (sort of like buying gas when you’re down to a quarter tank). I’m not a fan of “rolling into the gas station on fumes”. The navigation system will certainly let you get close to that if you want. And I suspect Ford “pads” that battery percentage a tiny bit, just as a gas gauge on “E” still has a small amount of fuel.

Feel like going down to 20% even 10% is the normal on a trip?

Feel like the harder one is to convince people going to 80-90% fast charging is better than 100%.

 

[Sikkun]

Okay, so let's shift the discussion to real engineering. An EREV is really a series hybrid, which is a lot less mechanically complex than a parallel hybrid because there is no transmission. The engine in the series hybrid can be tuned to run at peak efficiency for the load requirements. The engine can be made lighter because it is not part of the mechanical drivetrain and the shock load on it is massively less than in a traditional ICEV platform. The ICE simply spins an electrical generator. Both the engine and generator can be engineered for light weight because the driveline shock is absorbed by the battery and not the output shafts and crankshafts of a transmission and engine block.

Modern internal combustion engines are extremely reliable and require minimum maintenance. You can argue your perceptions, but modern versions of ICE are well-engineered, highly-reliable machines. Stack the energy losses of electrical production and distribution of the ions to the BEV battery and on-board electrical generation is nearly as heat efficient. The problem with the serious development of the series hybrid is the perception combustion emissions are killing the planet and the governmental regulations you so want to force change are ironically stifling change.

Series hybrid vehicles solve a lot of challenges most of the market has, which are ease of refueling, near on-par fuel cost, alleviation/reduction of possible future electrical grid capacity. Using gasoline retains the low-cost fuels and chemicals the petrochemical industry produces that we all rely on for most of everything in our comfortable lifestyles from low-cost food production and distribution to the clothes we wear, the furniture we sit on, the screens we entertain ourselves with, and most importantly commercial air flight.

Doesn’t matter if you view it as reliable…you’re adding more stuff I don’t need.

Reliable stuff breaks and also cost money. Not going to spend the money for something I am not using.

 

[Teslaeata]

Extended Range EV or Battery EV?

BEV or I’d have bought a half-arsed extender EV car which are shite……….only in my view, before the Redditeers become offended and start posting their gobshite!

 

[rsummerset]

They’re an outlier. Most folks go below 50% routinely. People may not run it down to electron fumes, but below 1/2 full? Absolutely.

I don’t think we know what “most folks” do.

I bet Ford knows. Would be interesting to see the data.

I also wonder if those going below 50% even have to. Is it just because they like to charge less frequently or because they actually use more than 50% in a single day or trip?

Even more interesting would be interesting to see how many get below 20 or 10%.

So many care about a 270 vs 300 mile range (10%) but curious if those same people ever even use that last 10%.

Among the mach-e and other EV owners I know around here, no one routinely charges at 50%. Most wait till it's lower and they need a charge. Charging around here is a topic of conversation, given the dearth of public charging and the 51¢ base rate for electricity. YMMV

Neither condition really matters tbh. What's the practical point of frequent charging if your typical usage is 30 to 40 miles a day? For me, that's about 10% in around-town use (We have really cool rolling hills here). I'll charge up maybe after day 6 unless I have something planned. If I have a series of trips planned to Kona or Hilo, then I'll charge up before the first and after the third.

Now, I think it'll be a different story if we're talking EREVs. I think folks are going to be surprised at just how small those HV batteries will be. I think we're looking at LFPs that are less than half the size of the current mme HVB. Perhaps substantially less. Then charging at 50% SOC would make a lot more sense. That's one reason I think most folks buying an EREV will end up just not charging at all. It's easier just to gas up and let the ICE take care of things.

If I’m driving around locally, I almost always have a full tank of electrons because I charge every night. If I’m roadtripping, I usually like to charge when I hit 20% (sort of like buying gas when you’re down to a quarter tank). I’m not a fan of “rolling into the gas station on fumes”. The navigation system will certainly let you get close to that if you want. And I suspect Ford “pads” that battery percentage a tiny bit, just as a gas gauge on “E” still has a small amount of fuel.

I still do find it interesting that some can find it hard to use 30% (or 40% if you charge to 90%) of your battery on a normal weekend outing. This past weekend I drove me and the lady to a mall that was approximately 25 miles away. From there we drove an additional 35 miles away to a birthday party. The trip back home was approximately 50 to 60 miles. I suppose I could have stopped before going home at a fast charging station to charge up in order to not go under 50% but it was late at night and I wasn't about to do that when I could get up the next morning and go. And if I an not mistaken, with the distance driven and the temperature (and me enjoying my new FAST vehicle) I believe I got home with the range in the 30s. I started out this trip at 80%. Now I do not drive like this all the time, but it is easy for me to have to make a trip like this from time-to-time. Not sure what other use cases are like?

 

[dalola]

DC charging is expensive relative to home charging for sure. Relative to gas, it's parity, and yet people pay for gas all the time.

Parity my ass. Not in the majority of states. The average cost of DC public charging in Ohio is $.50/kWh. Gas is less than $3/gal. Lets use $3 just for easy numbers, if I have a car that gets 30 mpg, and an EV that gets 3mi/kWh, EV fuel costs are 60% more.

The wild west of public charging is the biggest restriction to widespread EV adoption. Until that is solved, mass EV adoption is a pipe dream.

 

[Gloff]

Parity my ass. Not in the majority of states. The average cost of DC public charging in Ohio is $.50/kWh. Gas is less than $3/gal. Lets use $3 just for easy numbers, if I have a car that gets 30 mpg, and an EV that gets 3mi/kWh, EV fuel costs are 60% more.

The wild west of public charging is the biggest restriction to widespread EV adoption. Until that is solved, mass EV adoption is a pipe dream.

Certainly every market is different. $.38/kWh at Tesla during peak charging in Dayton, Oh with Tesla subscription.

You and I are on the same track, just looking at it differently. The wild west of public charging is part and parcel with ease and simplicity. I'm just saying the cost of fuel is less of a factor than people make it out to be. If pricing remained the same and charging was quick and plentiful (as gas is now), EVs would sell quite a bit more due to all of the other benefits, in spite of the fuel cost. It's the same reason people routinely pick massive vehicles, or 4wd, or crew cab pickups, or any other detriment to fuel economy for edge use cases.

Lots of EV buyers today bought them for cost savings or climate action reasons, and that's the lens they're looking at it through. Remove those purchase drivers and you're left with the rest of the market; that market wants a big vehicle with lots of space, but doesn't want to sacrifice the ease and convenience of filling up in 5 min whenever and wherever they want, no plan necessary.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I still do find it interesting that some can find it hard to use 30% (or 40% if you charge to 90%) of your battery on a normal weekend outing. This past weekend I drove me and the lady to a mall that was approximately 25 miles away. From there we drove an additional 35 miles away to a birthday party. The trip back home was approximately 50 to 60 miles. I suppose I could have stopped before going home at a fast charging station to charge up in order to not go under 50% but it was late at night and I wasn't about to do that when I could get up the next morning and go. And if I an not mistaken, with the distance driven and the temperature (and me enjoying my new FAST vehicle) I believe I got home with the range in the 30s. I started out this trip at 80%. Now I do not drive like this all the time, but it is easy for me to have to make a trip like this from time-to-time. Not sure what other use cases are like?

Honestly, there are very few wrong ways to be charging your cars. About the only wrong way I can think of is running it to the last electron then DFCF charging it to chock full. Whether you’re charging and driving it like @Mach1E, @Jimrpa, myself or something else, it’s probably all ok.

Parity my ass. Not in the majority of states. The average cost of DC public charging in Ohio is $.50/kWh. Gas is less than $3/gal. Lets use $3 just for easy numbers, if I have a car that gets 30 mpg, and an EV that gets 3mi/kWh, EV fuel costs are 60% more.

The wild west of public charging is the biggest restriction to widespread EV adoption. Until that is solved, mass EV adoption is a pipe dream.

A lot of this is location specific. @Gloff
Is in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m in Hawaii. Cut rate gas near me is $4.95 per gallon for regular. Electric rates are at, or exceed ,51¢ per kWh during all times except off peak. Off peak here is 9 am through 5 pm daily. DCFC is usually 61¢ per kWh or higher except during off peak … when everyone is working.

if we use a Toyota Tacoma, Hawaii’s most popular vehicle, it gets roughly 20 mpg. On my average mid drive here of almost exactly 100 miles, my old Taco would burn 5 gallons. (Technically mine would burn 5.9 but it’s 20 years old. Not atypical here btw). That works out to $25.00. My Mach-e uses between 25% and 30% soc on that run. Figuring 30, we get roughly 26.5 kWh (88 kWh available on my 21 ER) used at 51¢ per kWh or call it $13.50. Our solar system mitigates that too but that’s another consideration.

With all that said, saving on gas isn’t the best justification for an EV. Doesn’t hurt though in those cases.

 

[cyeung]

I came from an EREV that I bought 10 years ago, the Chevrolet Volt. As I gain confidence in the ever-growing infrastructure on road trips, I would not like to go back. This drive for EREVs sells ourselves short of our full potential.

On my passion for advancing technology alone, I would like the Mustang Mach-E to remain a full BEV.

 

[dalola]

A lot of this is location specific.
Is in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m in Hawaii. Cut rate gas near me is $4.95 per gallon for regular. Electric rates are at, or exceed ,51¢ per kWh during all times except off peak. Off peak here is 9 am through 5 pm daily. DCFC is usually 61¢ per kWh or higher except during off peak … when everyone is working.

if we use a Toyota Tacoma, Hawaii’s most popular vehicle, it gets roughly 20 mpg. On my average mid drive here of almost exactly 100 miles, my old Taco would burn 5 gallons. (Technically mine would burn 5.9 but it’s 20 years old. Not atypical here btw). That works out to $25.00. My Mach-e uses between 25% and 30% soc on that run. Figuring 30, we get roughly 26.5 kWh (88 kWh available on my 21 ER) used at 51¢ per kWh or call it $13.50. Our solar system mitigates that too but that’s another consideration.

With all that said, saving on gas isn’t the best justification for an EV. Doesn’t hurt though in those cases.

Agree, and yeah, it is absolutely user/location specific, and unfortunately, public charging loses in most cases, for most people. For many drivers, when compared to ICE refueling, DC public charging is NOT more convenient, is NOT cheaper, is NOT quicker, is NOT easier/less complex. Who would sign up for that? Sure, the ideologues who think they are saving the planet, a few who like the tech, that's pretty much it. If you can't home charge, EV's don't make a lot of sense. Until that problem is solved, it's going to be a struggle

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