Ford cancels Model e Dealer Program, letting all US retailers sell EVs

[Guss-E 2021]

Closer than any other state except one.

Alaska?

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[Just Lurking]

IMO, Ford should have fronted the cost or at least covered a large portion of the upgrades required for DCFC at the dealer locations. If they did that, they would have gotten a lot less blowback from the dealerships. By making the dealers front the total cost, it turned most dealers off from the program. Most of the rest of the standards were pretty mundane.

I see your argument and I mostly agree. I do think Ford may have been using the DCFC requirement as a way of separating the dealers who are truly ready to commit to EVs from the "dabblers". A high bar to enter is a tried and true method of forcing loyalty and commitment.

I don't really care about DCFC chargers at Ford dealerships. The piece of the "model e" program that matters to me is set pricing and online purchasing.

I agree the DCFC is a niche benefit that's probably only meaningful in some areas. I was hoping the EV program would result in free EV loaners (maybe the occasional ICE loaner if they run out), speedy and quality service, a smoother purchasing process, and so on.

He can say it as many times as he likes. Any investor who takes such "statements" at face value is liable to lose a lot of money.

It's going to be tough to do but that's clearly the goal. We'll see in time if they are successful.

 

[dbsb3233]

With DC fast charging barely being cheaper and often even being more expensive than gas.

DCFC does work out to about the same or sometimes a bit more than gas on a per-mile basis. But since we start the trips with 100% home charge (cheap), and sometimes get a free charge at hotels during the trip, the average for the whole trip usually works out to a bit cheaper than gas.

We do the Denver-Vegas route at least every other month. 1600 miles round-trip. Only about 60% of those miles are DCFC with the rest from L2.

Of course, the downside is the extra 2 hours of charging each way makes the drive day too long for daylight (I try to avoid much night driving at my age), so it really ends up costing us more by having to break the drive days into 1.5 days and paying for a hotel. But that's just because 800 miles is right on the edge for summer daytime drive in ICE. 500-600 is our max in the MME.

 

[Jtbuster]

Sure:
I’ll start with killing this program which was to tamp down on over pricing their EVs and force dealers to actually sell them and service them. I love my Mach E, I’m loosing faith in Ford being able to execute any of their plans, which makes me hesitant to buy another EV from ford.
Another issue would them pushing back EV spending and models. Meanwhile Hyundai, GM, Kia all seem to be full steam ahead, hell GM just dropped 3 models with in a few months. And just surpassed Ford in ev sales for May. Ford can’t compete so instead of investing they are pulling back, most logical thing they could come up with. You can’t win this race if you aren’t in the race and waiting another year or two for new models is just terrible.
once you respond I’ll make a few more points.

Thanx

 

[Billyk24]

Of course, I would take 500 mile range. I’d take 1,000 mile range.

I just think 200-300 mile is good enough for mass adoption, it’s also in the realm of the range of gas vehicles.

So the problem is more solved by adding DC fast chargers to every major interstate truck/travel center than doubling the range.

Solid state battery is "suppose to be" lighter. More energy dense than current lithium ion battery types. How much more range for the same kWh capacity and at what cost is unknown. This coild also be part of the future.

 

[Billyk24]

And even then MME sales are up….

Ford is currently doing pretty well, sales are up, profit is up, and they are investing billions into new manufacturing and plants.

Dividend rates are stable, stock price is horizontal pretty much like the last 24 years.

Think his job is currently safe.

Stock price dipped into the $4.00 range a few years ago. At over $12.00 now. CEO actually purchased a huge amount of stock when it was in the $5.00 range

 

[HuntingPudel]

Solid state battery is "suppose to be" lighter. More energy dense than current lithium ion battery types. How much more range for the same kWh capacity and at what cost is unknown. This coild also be part of the future.

The problem here is even though the press seems to think SS batteries are around the corner, in reality a commercially-viable one is a decade or more away. ?‍?

 

[AKgrampy]

Wouldn't that theoretically have Ford adding the cost of DCFC infrastructure to the MSRP of our Mach-E?

I admit that I'm not sure I would have supported the now withdrawn mandates for DCFC installs. Certainly not a one size fits all approach. It's a complex issue.

But I don't know if I'd like the co$t burden of DCFC infrastructure burdening the already expensive product. Especially if I happen to be a customer that doesn't need DCFC to drive an EV.

There was a mechanism to pay back the investment. The issue I saw was for smaller dealers they could not sell enough vehicles to recover their investment. I believe that was the error Ford made - one size fits all. For instance our local dealer sold about 10 Mach’s and 3 Lightning’s. So why invest $500,000 to $1,000,000 for such slow sales here in central Alaska. But there would be no growth if sales are cut off.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Has Farley even been there long enough for the Mach-E or Lightning to be his product(s)?

Yes. While the road to the Mach-e spans 3 Ford CEO’s, the car’s development spans 2 and Mr Farley was sentry helm for the last year (or so) of development and its launch.

Kind of surprising considering how much value there is in an Ioniq/EV6. Not sure why those haven't been flying outta stores. I haven't had a chance to actually touch/feel drive.

I have. I was underwhelmed. Not bad mind you but I’d rather buy another Mach-e from my current dealer than an EV6, and you’re well aware of my opinion about them.

 

[Gloff]

Seriously, dude.

I was merely pointing out that cost parity has been achieved in some aspects of the EV world. You can disagree, but this is unnecessary.

Can you provide a BEV that has equivalent features to a similar ICEV and yet is cheaper to purchase? No, you can't.

I love my MME but the ICEV equivalent has many more features than mine. My $62k car doesn't have an opening roof, ventilated/cooled seats or a heads up display. The rear seats are not heated. The only reason I have a rear hatch button is because I added it myself. Just about every $62k ICEV has more features than my car.

Seriously, dude.

I assume, based on your profile, you chose to buy or lease a GT. You made the decision to prioritize performance over pure cost. If you wanted to only have luxury/tech features, you could have bought a Premium for less. It's like saying that a Porsche GT3 is terrible value because it doesn't have door handles like every other high performance vehicle. If you wanted cooled seats, heads up display, an SUV, AND 0-60 in sub 4 seconds, you're paying more than $62K for that.


To my point:
Here's a Select with Comfort Lite, Mobile power cord, and interior protection package in my inventory right now. MSRP $44,430, price after discounts: $41,430.

Here's an Edge with similar features albeit with a power liftgate. MSRP $43,090, price after discounts: $39,090.

Even if you don't take into account fuel savings, maintenance savings, or the other benefits to having an EV, there's price parity in the same vehicle class. I could do much the same thing with an F-150 Lightning.

I could go on about the savings to be had by leasing the Mach E and buying it at the end of the lease, making the Mach e factually cheaper than the Edge by $1000.

Which illustrates my point: You're on this forum, own an EV, and made the same assumptions that some guests make about EVs. The barriers to entry are more complex than any one thing, but there are still a lot of people that haven't actually looked at EVs because of outdated information.

 

[Sikkun]

I was merely pointing out that cost parity has been achieved in some aspects of the EV world. You can disagree, but this is unnecessary.



I assume, based on your profile, you chose to buy or lease a GT. You made the decision to prioritize performance over pure cost. If you wanted to only have luxury/tech features, you could have bought a Premium for less. It's like saying that a Porsche GT3 is terrible value because it doesn't have door handles like every other high performance vehicle. If you wanted cooled seats, heads up display, an SUV, AND 0-60 in sub 4 seconds, you're paying more than $62K for that.


To my point:
Here's a Select with Comfort Lite, Mobile power cord, and interior protection package in my inventory right now. MSRP $44,430, price after discounts: $41,430.

Here's an Edge with similar features albeit with a power liftgate. MSRP $43,090, price after discounts: $39,090.

Even if you don't take into account fuel savings, maintenance savings, or the other benefits to having an EV, there's price parity in the same vehicle class. I could do much the same thing with an F-150 Lightning.

I could go on about the savings to be had by leasing the Mach E and buying it at the end of the lease, making the Mach e factually cheaper than the Edge by $1000.

Which illustrates my point: You're on this forum, own an EV, and made the same assumptions that some guests make about EVs. The barriers to entry are more complex than any one thing, but there are still a lot of people that haven't actually looked at EVs because of outdated information.

If you’re ignoring performance, size wise I’d argue an Escape is a better comparison than an Edge. The Escape will come out cheaper, probably even if you account fuel savings over the years.

But not as significantly more expensive as people think. Granted you can currently get a 23.5 Premium for 43k even. Now before the price cuts….then deff was more in an Escapes favor than today.

 

[engnrng]

Since no Mach E looker or buyer will ever buy a DCFC, why have one at the dealership? Yes, in some edge cases, such as rural areas, it possibly makes sense. It makes a lot more sense to me to have on display and functional a 4 prong 14-50 socket that accepts the charge cord that is delivered with the car, and to have on display and functional one or more choices for homeowners to see what will go into their garages or near their driveways.

Several years ago when I bought a C-Max Energi PHEV, I went for a test drive with a sales person who knew virtually nothing about the product he was selling. The Dealership had signs all over the showroom about how they were a qualified Ford EV Seller. They were lying. When I told the sales person that the battery had no charge, that I was only driving in hybrid mode, he apologized, said he would get it charged overnight and for me to come back tomorrow. I agreed. I returned the next day to find that the service department had overnight put a trickle charger on the 12V battery! Still no charge on the traction battery, so I refused the "test drive" and went to another dealer. The best thing Dealers can do is train and educate their sales staff - INCLUDING THE SALES MANAGER! If they know what questions to expect and how to correctly answer them, they will sell EVs. If not, well....

 

[engnrng]

We shouldn't.

(Be trying to get people without home charging into BEVs, I mean.)

I know a friend who "tried" EV ownership, but lived in a condo and found it too inconvenient to spend 30 minutes every 2 to 3 days to recharge at a DCFC nearby. Recently, they traded their EV in for a PHEV that they can plug into a 110 outlet overnight and they have cut their gas bill by about 80%. Very happy.

 

[engnrng]

Kind of surprising considering how much value there is in an Ioniq/EV6. Not sure why those haven't been flying outta stores. I haven't had a chance to actually touch/feel drive.

Our local Hyundai Dealer is turning them over quite rapidly. I see more and more every day around town. You see, I trained the salesman almost 5 years ago when I bought my Kona EV (before the Mach E was available). He actually listened! They now have trained sales people and about 60% of their sales are EVs. Makes all the difference. FORD could have a 1 hour sales class and compel their sales people to take a Mach E or Lightning home for at least a week before they are qualified to talk to customers.

 

[Gloff]

If you’re ignoring performance, size wise I’d argue an Escape is a better comparison than an Edge. The Escape will come out cheaper, probably even if you account fuel savings over the years.

But not as significantly more expensive as people think. Granted you can currently get a 23.5 Premium for 43k even. Now before the price cuts….then deff was more in an Escapes favor than today.

It's rare that I have guests comparing Escape to Mach E.

The Escape is 5" shorter than the Mach E. The Mach E is technically a crossover, but I'd put it in the midsize class From a power perspective, base for base, the Mach E is much more in line with what Edge offers. I am surprised at Escape's interior dimensions lining up pretty well with Mach E, but I would chock that up to Escape's more traditional SUV roofline and the sliding rear seats.

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