Ford cuts production of F-150 Lightning EV truck

[TheSteelRider]

If Ford really wanted the Lightning to do well, they would establish a system to prohibit the dealers from selling them at 100-200% markups. The trucks, as one can get off the lot, is too expensive for the average American to afford, within the established max recommendation of 15% of income. Coupled with poor range and poor battery performance under load, trucks are not ready for mainstream. My son that works for a ford dealership told me the truck only gets about 50-75 actual miles when towing at max load. That is ridiculous. Towing a truck should be able to go 400 miles between charges to be viable.
If Ford has Nate’s invested in more BEV cars instead of all their trucks and SUVs, their EV lineup would do better.

Your son should watch TFL truck and then he'd know it's more like 95 miles in the worst-worst case scenario (worst case boxy full load at full highway speeds going up slightly in elevation). But I assume your point is it is the range ain't that great for this use-case and we won't quibble about the FUD he's spreading.

Besides that, I bet almost every person you ask would agree that the moniker "stealership" is definitely a well-deserved slang term. That said though,

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[ChasingCoral]

If Ford really wanted the Lightning to do well, they would establish a system to prohibit the dealers from selling them at 100-200% markups. The trucks, as one can get off the lot, is too expensive for the average American to afford, within the established max recommendation of 15% of income. Coupled with poor range and poor battery performance under load, trucks are not ready for mainstream. My son that works for a ford dealership told me the truck only gets about 50-75 actual miles when towing at max load. That is ridiculous. Towing a truck should be able to go 400 miles between charges to be viable.
If Ford has Nate’s invested in more BEV cars instead of all their trucks and SUVs, their EV lineup would do better.

As a Lightning owner who towed a trailer across country and back, I can assure you your son is incorrect. Does he have personal experience towing long distances with the Lightning?

We covered 9,543 miles of towing on that trip. Average efficiency was 1.17 miles/kWh. Battery is 131 kWh.

Sure, we had some legs that were 50-75 miles between charging stops because of the spacing of chargers. We also had legs over 120 miles.

 

[dbsb3233]

They aren't selling them at markups now, in fact they are at discounts. Owners are bemoaning that fact all over forums and Facebook.

He lost me at "100-200% markups". That's 2x to 3x the MSRP. I was gonna reply, but then decided that was so silly it's not even worth it.

 

[apwelsh]

As a Lightning owner who towed a trailer across country and back, I can assure you your son is incorrect. Does he have personal experience towing long distances with the Lightning?

We covered 9,543 miles of towing on that trip. Average efficiency was 1.17 miles/kWh. Battery is 131 kWh.

Sure, we had some legs that were 50-75 miles between charging stops because of the spacing of chargers. We also had legs over 120 miles.

This is a classic case of apply a personal experience with is far from a worst case scenario against a worst case scenario, and saying it doesn’t do that to me. If you are going flat or downhill, and are not towing a max load, of course you get more mileage.
Once you go to DC fast charging, you have to charge from 10-80% every 1.5-2hours, and you have to spend minimum of 30 minutes charging. They can pull like nobody’s business, but the batteries simply are not big enough to make this type of trip extremely inconvenient. Until you can tow an 8500lbs trailer for 4 hours between charges, going up hills and down, it is vastly inconvenient.it’s a niche market. The purchase record speaks for itself.

 

[RickMachE]

As a Lightning owner who towed a trailer across country and back, I can assure you your son is incorrect. Does he have personal experience towing long distances with the Lightning?

We covered 9,543 miles of towing on that trip. Average efficiency was 1.17 miles/kWh. Battery is 131 kWh.

Sure, we had some legs that were 50-75 miles between charging stops because of the spacing of chargers. We also had legs over 120 miles.

Please stop interjecting facts, it ruins the narrative.

Oops, I guess the 50 - 75 mile son's expertise is shot now.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Please stop interjecting facts, it ruins the narrative.

Oops, I guess the 50 - 75 mile son's expertise is shot now.

Yes but @apwelsh doesn’t think so. He thinks rumors from his son are fact and my cross-country trip (and other Lightning owners with long-distance experience) are “a personal experience”.

He’s also moved the goalposts to 4 hours towing 8500 pounds up and down hills without stopping as the minimum to get out of a niche market.

 

[apwelsh]

He lost me at "100-200% markups". That's 2x to 3x the MSRP. I was gonna reply, but then decided that was so silly it's not even worth it.

The F150 Lightning — base model, is starting at $96k at my dealership. As you go to the higher end models, the prices reaches up higher, and as you go to high end neighborhoods they markups go up even more.

Yes but @apwelsh doesn’t think so. He thinks rumors from his son are fact and my cross-country trip (and other Lightning owners with long-distance experience) are “a personal experience”.

He’s also moved the goalposts to 4 hours towing 8500 pounds up and down hills without stopping as the minimum to get out of a niche market.

what goal post? I said 400 miles on a charge is needed for mainstream, the. I said you need to at least get 4 hours of drive time between recharges. If anything, the 4 hours between recharges could be considered relaxed if you throw out the fact the DC fast charging turns into a relatively slow charge after 80% and more than 80% is not recommended, and drain below 10% is not recommended .. you you have 70% of the battery to work with between charges.
I never claimed the bare minimum was a vacuums test. the real world deals with hills, wind, rain, etc. 70% of 400 miles is 280 miles which is about 4 hours of driving.
Sounds like you just want to worship Ford. I am merely pointing out the problem with BEV trucks. I guess if you keep the speed at 25Mph n a flat road, with no wind you can get closer to the claimed range.

 

[dbsb3233]

The F150 Lightning — base model, is starting at $96k at my dealership. As you go to the higher end models, the prices reaches up higher, and as you go to high end neighborhoods they markups go up even more.

Which dealer? While it's always possible for a rogue dealer to be way out of the norm, most are selling at or below MSRP now. For instance, my dealer (CO) is showing 15 of them, ranging from $0 to $5000 below MSRP. Numerous reports around the country of similar discounts.

 

[ChasingCoral]

The F150 Lightning — base model, is starting at $96k at my dealership.

You talk about a stealership!!!!!

Your dealership has one hell of a markup. Drive an hour to Palm Springs and it's only $52K for a Pro https://www.palmspringmotors.com/in...i6iqAJdRTgSI4cCqWNuULONV_PXEOqswaAsPFEALw_wcB

I'm noting a reality problem in @apwelsh's posts

 

[leehinde]

The F150 Lightning — base model, is starting at $96k at my dealership.

You should drive a little north:

Vehicles starting at $57k,

https://www.walnutcreekford.com/new...e=Truck&model=F-150 Lightning&sortBy=msrp asc

 

[TheSteelRider]

Yes but @apwelsh doesn’t think so. He thinks rumors from his son are fact and my cross-country trip (and other Lightning owners with long-distance experience) are “a personal experience”.

He’s also moved the goalposts to 4 hours towing 8500 pounds up and down hills without stopping as the minimum to get out of a niche market.

For some reason, I just keep thinking "camel", and I don't mean the brand of cigarettes.

 

[TheSteelRider]

The F150 Lightning — base model, is starting at $96k at my dealership. As you go to the higher end models, the prices reaches up higher, and as you go to high end neighborhoods they markups go up even more.

Everything in CA is overpriced. Not sure that many "high end neighborhood Cali types" are the target demographic for a work truck. Meanwhile, deep in the heart of the Truck Capital of the World ... I picked a dealership close to a major city, I'd be willing to bet 30 minute more drive would unleash even more deals.

 

[apwelsh]

That would be nice, but I’m not in the market at this time. I have the MME and can only afford one at a time. Also, my 5th wheel is 12k lbs fully loaded and I pull with diesel, so I drive it about 6-7 hours between rest stops. I would need far more tow capacity, and enough battery to make the trip the same without recharging. There are no fast chargers on that route nor am I willing to wait the extra time — its’s already a long drive. The have never seen a pull-through charging station which is what would be needed— pull through with extra tall ceiling if any…

not to mention, desert camping would be out of the question with the current range while towing.

 

[nvabill]

As a Lightning owner who towed a trailer across country and back, I can assure you your son is incorrect. Does he have personal experience towing long distances with the Lightning?

We covered 9,543 miles of towing on that trip. Average efficiency was 1.17 miles/kWh. Battery is 131 kWh.

Sure, we had some legs that were 50-75 miles between charging stops because of the spacing of chargers. We also had legs over 120 miles.

Are you honestly happy with being able to tow a trailer 120 miles between charges, that seems terrible to me?

 

[ChasingCoral]

Are you honestly happy with being able to tow a trailer 120 miles between charges, that seems terrible to me?

200 would be ideal but 2 hours between stops isn't bad when trailering. Besides, for all the benefit driving electric gives, it's a very reasonable trade-off.

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