Advertisement



mustangteddy

Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Location
Hagerstown, MD
First Name
Chris
Vehicles
2014 F150 2016 Explorer 2016 Kia Soul EV
Occupation
Truck Driver
Country flag
Ford's plant in Cologne builds 1150 Fiestas DAILY. If the production of the Mustang Mach-E starts in the summer (July?), 50.000 cars in 2020 should't be a problem.
That is if they can get the batteries which is my biggest concern
 

Nikos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
49
Location
Taylors SC
Vehicles
2012 Explorer Limited, 2013 Fusion Hybrid Platinum, 2017 Mustang GT Premium and a Reserved Mach E AWD Extended Range Premium.
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Country flag
That is if they can get the batteries which is my biggest concern
According to Ford the batteries are supplied by LG from their new factory in Poland. The constrain is LG and their new factory.
Logistics and supply is the key. Hoping for the best. It can be really complicated.!!!
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
I sure hope all these chargers display in the car, and show if they are in use real time. Would hate to search out a dealer only to find they only have 1 or 2 chargers and they are already being used. Also, I hope people are charged idle fees so someone does not plug in and go eat lunch while their car is fully charged. Just "having a charger" is a start, but they have to be integrated and the process seamless.

If not, there will be many unhappy people that assumed having a charger was good enough. It has to be an available charger with real time data. I know from years with a Volt. It has no charger smarts, but has gas backup
I think it would be of bit of wishful thinking to expect the dealership chargers to be available as public chargers, at least with any sort of dependability (if at all).

First, I'm guessing for most dealers, any charger out in a public space will probably be L2 rather than L3. That alone makes it of limited use at somewhere like a dealership (rather than a hotel or restaurant where you might kill some time). Second, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that dealers would want to get in the business of becoming full retail charging stations. Any more than they want to be retail gas stations. Seems to be the purpose for having a couple of chargers is for servicing their own vehicle first and foremost, and then maybe as a perk for their customers to top off if one happens to be open when they pop in.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Ford's plant in Cologne builds 1150 Fiestas DAILY. If the production of the Mustang Mach-E starts in the summer (July?), 50.000 cars in 2020 should't be a problem.
While that Cuautitlán Assembly plant is big enough to produce over 1000 vehicle/day, I think it's unlikely they'll staff the plant to those levels only to turn around and lay them off a few months later. So far I haven't heard any announcement on a 2nd model going to be produced there soon. They shut the plant to retool it for the Mach-e last year after ending Fiesta production there mid-2019.

Without a 2nd model to keep the staffing going to take over for an initial surge to get 50,000 2021 Mach-e's out, seems unlikely they'd do such a surge. Meaning I expect they'll average production throughout the year (like 4000-5000 per month).

And as others have said, they've already stated that battery supply is the bottleneck.
 

jlauro

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
471
Reaction score
310
Location
Owosso, MI
First Name
John
Vehicles
Charger R/T AWD, Rav4, future Mach-E
Country flag
I think it would be of bit of wishful thinking to expect the dealership chargers to be available as public chargers, at least with any sort of dependability (if at all).

First, I'm guessing for most dealers, any charger out in a public space will probably be L2 rather than L3. That alone makes it of limited use at somewhere like a dealership (rather than a hotel or restaurant where you might kill some time). Second, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that dealers would want to get in the business of becoming full retail charging stations. Any more than they want to be retail gas stations. Seems to be the purpose for having a couple of chargers is for servicing their own vehicle first and foremost, and then maybe as a perk for their customers to top off if one happens to be open when they pop in.
If it's free, than probably L2... However, if it takes CC (which I think some dealer chargers do), then L3 makes more sense. Why not partner with EA for L3 chargers... (not saying they are part of the network, but would hope they will at least show on ford pass)

I am pretty sure Ford has stated they will have chargers at all their EV dealers, so not really wishful thinking. I think it's a requirement for them to be an EV dealer.
 

Nikos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
49
Location
Taylors SC
Vehicles
2012 Explorer Limited, 2013 Fusion Hybrid Platinum, 2017 Mustang GT Premium and a Reserved Mach E AWD Extended Range Premium.
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Country flag
I think it would be of bit of wishful thinking to expect the dealership chargers to be available as public chargers, at least with any sort of dependability (if at all).

First, I'm guessing for most dealers, any charger out in a public space will probably be L2 rather than L3. That alone makes it of limited use at somewhere like a dealership (rather than a hotel or restaurant where you might kill some time). Second, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that dealers would want to get in the business of becoming full retail charging stations. Any more than they want to be retail gas stations. Seems to be the purpose for having a couple of chargers is for servicing their own vehicle first and foremost, and then maybe as a perk for their customers to top off if one happens to be open when they pop in.
I agree. You never know though what Ford might do. They offer three years of charging. Complimentary that is. Why not the dealerships if they can locate them outside their service departments. You still have to use your phone and the Fordpass app to gain access. Another convenience for their customers. An idea for Ford to explore.!!??
 

jlauro

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
471
Reaction score
310
Location
Owosso, MI
First Name
John
Vehicles
Charger R/T AWD, Rav4, future Mach-E
Country flag
According to Ford the batteries are supplied by LG from their new factory in Poland. The constrain is LG and their new factory.
Logistics and supply is the key. Hoping for the best. It can be really complicated.!!!
Most places I seen is that LG is supplying the cells, but that Ford is building the batteries. Minor nit as you need a lot of cells (288 or 376 depending on range) for a battery...
 
  • Like
Reactions: UW2

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
If it's free, than probably L2... However, if it takes CC (which I think some dealer chargers do), then L3 makes more sense. Why not partner with EA for L3 chargers... (not saying they are part of the network, but would hope they will at least show on ford pass)

I am pretty sure Ford has stated they will have chargers at all their EV dealers, so not really wishful thinking. I think it's a requirement for them to be an EV dealer.
I didn't say they wouldn't have chargers at all. Obviously they need some for their internal purposes. The issue is whether they'll be open to the general public or not, like an EA charging network or something. I highly doubt that. A few dealers maybe, but counting on 2000+ dealerships to be a public charging network is what I suspect is wishful thinking.
 
Last edited:

Nikos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
49
Location
Taylors SC
Vehicles
2012 Explorer Limited, 2013 Fusion Hybrid Platinum, 2017 Mustang GT Premium and a Reserved Mach E AWD Extended Range Premium.
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Country flag
Most places I seen is that LG is supplying the cells, but that Ford is building the batteries. Minor nit as you need a lot of cells (288 or 376 depending on range) for a battery...
The LG factory in Poland will supply the batteries for the Ford Transit build for the European market. It is the only way to keep that factory building batteries on a three shift schedule and make it profitable for LG.
I do not remember if there are constrains acquiring the raw materials or the number of batteries they can produce for each vehicle platform. Ford hasn't said if the factory has begun production, yet.!!
At least they have started early and hopefully all comes together in the end. Tesla had and has similar problems with their Panasonic battery supplier.
I believe Ford hasn't said anything nasty towards Tesla and their early troubles they had because those remarks will come back and haunt them. Observe, listen and learn from other companies problems.
Jack Welch, an ex GE CEO said. If you see another company doing better than you, steal, copy and implement those ideas as quickly as possible.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
They offer three years of charging. Complimentary that is.
If you mean at public charging stations, no, it's 2 years of complementary access to their consolidated payment system. Meaning they're just making it easier for people to pay for their public charges through your FordPass account. You prergister a payment method in your FordPass account and it automatically processes the payment for you. It's not free charging, just an easier payment method.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/public-charging/

"Ford gives you two years of complimentary access to the FordPass Charging Network for easy pay-as-you-drive charging."
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Most places I seen is that LG is supplying the cells, but that Ford is building the batteries. Minor nit as you need a lot of cells (288 or 376 depending on range) for a battery...
Yeah, the LG Chem plant in Poland makes the battery cells, then ships them in bulk to the Ford plant in Mexico. Ford builds the battery packs and installs the cells.

Pretty sure that's the way I read it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UW2

FredT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Fred
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
312
Reaction score
225
Location
California
First Name
Fred
Vehicles
1999 Mercedes 320E. 2003 Passat Wagon, just finished lease of 2017 Audi A3 Enron
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
If you mean at public charging stations, no, it's 2 years of complementary access to their consolidated payment system. Meaning they're just making it easier for people to pay for their public charges through your FordPass account. You prergister a payment method in your FordPass account and it automatically processes the payment for you. It's not free charging, just an easier payment method.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/public-charging/

"Ford gives you two years of complimentary access to the FordPass Charging Network for easy pay-as-you-drive charging."
Presumably that would give access to Electrify America chargers at the reduced rate? That would not insignificant benefit.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Presumably that would give access to Electrify America chargers at the reduced rate? That would not insignificant benefit.
Some are speculating that, but I don't think anything has been clarified one way or the other by Ford.

EA's discounted plan costs $4/mo. If Ford throws that in for 2 years as a perk, that's about $100.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,057
Reaction score
3,903
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Ford hasn't said if the factory has begun production, yet.!!
The plant has been open and producing for a couple of years now. They have multiple customers. Ford is just one of them, having contracted for enough cells for 50,000 battery packs for the Mach-e in the 2021 model year. Haven't been able to find any info on whether Ford has actually been able to take delivery of any yet.

http://www.lgcorp.com/media/release/8357

https://www.electrive.com/2018/11/29/lg-chem-triples-manufacturing-capacities-in-poland/
 

Nikos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
49
Location
Taylors SC
Vehicles
2012 Explorer Limited, 2013 Fusion Hybrid Platinum, 2017 Mustang GT Premium and a Reserved Mach E AWD Extended Range Premium.
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Country flag
The plant has been open and producing for a couple of years now. They have multiple customers. Ford is just one of them, having contracted for enough cells for 50,000 battery packs for the Mach-e in the 2021 model year. Haven't been able to find any info on whether Ford has actually been able to take delivery of any yet.

http://www.lgcorp.com/media/release/8357

https://www.electrive.com/2018/11/29/lg-chem-triples-manufacturing-capacities-in-poland/
Yes.....LG is making batteries for at least two years in Poland. Their capacity at the plant is 100000 units or more. So....50000 units are contracted to Ford. They should have what they need.......unless the reservations have reached and exceeded the 50000 mark.
Ford would not release the actual number of reservations. We can only speculate.
LG also mentioned a plant in the US. Who are the customers for the production of that plant?? Definitely Ford has in their possession few hundred packs in order to test their vehicles. LG is the supplier in order to test the product and order 50000 units.
Meantime, feeding us with a teaspoon or little bit at a time, to keep us all interested and hungry for more.
I hate disappointments though.!!!!!
 



 









Advertisement


Top