Getting Ready - Electric in House

Jimrpa

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Have you checked to see if there are any nearby Level 2 or DCFCs? I have a couple of Level 2s a mile away from my house and a 6 bay DCFC 3 miles away. My emergency contingency was going to be to rely on a combination of those two (I have 200A service and a fairly empty 100A subpanel, all conveniently located in my garage, not TOO far from where I’ll be installing the EVSE so putting in the Ford Connected Charge Station isn’t the problem, it’s availability of the charger. Even so, the electrician wants $850 to move circuits, and run the new wiring ?)
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dbsb3233

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No personal experience here, but I know on some forums people talk about the Dryer Buddy: https://www.bsaelectronics.com/collections/dryer-buddys
Yep. There are others too, like the NeoCharge Smart Splitter.

Not a bad solution if the dryer location is close enough to the garage to easily run a plug and cable through the wall, without spending many $thousands. I'd want to check out the specs, but as I understand it, they're usually smart enough to just kick over automatically to the primary device (dryer) when it's in use, and to the secondary device (charger) when it's done. Dryers are rarely in use for hours in the middle of the night, allowing for plenty of hours to charge the car overnight.

 
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jparduhn70

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I upgraded my panel to 150A service for $1300 last year as part of a solar panel project, and the 240V/50A service to the garage for another $1000 this summer for the MME, and that's in the Chicago area. I bought the Chargepoint for another $525, and that can be set to 40A. The 30% tax credit for the charger this year helps a lot. Definitely shop around for the upgrades.
 

bruceski88

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Have you looked into if you can upgrade to a 125A panel without new service. This would allow you to put in a 50A line for MME and share it with the dryer or replace dryer with Ngas. 30A dryer plug is different than 50A so you don’t plug a 50A load into a 30A circuit. You can see them on HD website or at the store
 


dbsb3233

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Have you looked into if you can upgrade to a 125A panel without new service. This would allow you to put in a 50A line for MME and share it with the dryer or replace dryer with Ngas. 30A dryer plug is different than 50A so you don’t plug a 50A load into a 30A circuit. You can see them on HD website or at the store
From his description, I'm guessing that any upgrade to the existing 100A service will probably require new wiring, necessitating all the extra expensive he described. May even be one of those things that doesn't even pass code now for a new install, but he's grandfathered in as long as he doesn't change the service. That's common. Just my guess anyway.

A dryer switch sounds like it could be the perfect solution, as long as there's a reasonable path to run a cord from the dryer area to the garage. 30A (7.2 kW) is plenty good enough for most people's charging needs. That would still do a 70% charge in 9-10 hours overnight.
 

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A dryer switch sounds like it could be the perfect solution, as long as there's a reasonable path to run a cord from the dryer area to the garage. 30A (7.2 kW) is plenty good enough for most people's charging needs. That would still do a 70% charge in 9-10 hours overnight.
Except that he'd have to set his charger only to draw 24A sustained for that long, but 5.7kw is still pretty respectable. I would worry about the extension cord though - it really would need to be as short a run as possible.

IMHO gadgets like that with extension cords are only asking for trouble; 8+ hours of continuous draw is going to generate a lot of heat.
 

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Except that he'd have to set his charger only to draw 24A sustained for that long, but 5.7kw is still pretty respectable. I would worry about the extension cord though - it really would need to be as short a run as possible.

IMHO gadgets like that with extension cords are only asking for trouble; 8+ hours of continuous draw is going to generate a lot of heat.
Agree. And with the added risk that the cord is lying on the floor and possibly in contact with materials that are either more flammable or less heat tolerant.
 

dbsb3233

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Except that he'd have to set his charger only to draw 24A sustained for that long, but 5.7kw is still pretty respectable. I would worry about the extension cord though - it really would need to be as short a run as possible.

IMHO gadgets like that with extension cords are only asking for trouble; 8+ hours of continuous draw is going to generate a lot of heat.
Doh! You're right, I forgot to adjust for 80%. So yes, a 24A charger. Still plenty fast enough for most needs though. And way better than 120V.

The good part about being only 24A though is less concern about an extension cord. 24A is pretty low for a 240A circuit. The EVSE already has a 20-25' cord that's safe, as well as a short plug cord. A high quality 240V extension cord that's rated for 50A should be enough overkill to handle it, I would think. But I would definitely over-rate it like that just to be extra safe. And as you said, the minimum length that reaches.
 

dbsb3233

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Agree. And with the added risk that the cord is lying on the floor and possibly in contact with materials that are either more flammable or less heat tolerant.
Yeah, you'd definitely want to be careful where you run the cord. Just like if running Romex. Don't want it just coiled up on itself, or in contact with flammable materials. If I were to use it, I'd be sure to tack the cord up securely so it's not just laying around on stuff.

Again, the EVSE usually has a 25' heavy duty cord too, and we don't worry about it. A similarly heavy source cord (like RV use) carefully run should be no different. A 6-gauge 50A cord should be plenty of overkill. I think when people run into trouble, it's not going thick enough.
 

macchiaz-o

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Yeah, you'd definitely want to be careful where you run the cord. Just like if running Romex. Don't want it just coiled up on itself, or in contact with flammable materials. If I were to use it, I'd be sure to tack the cord up securely so it's not just laying around on stuff.

Again, the EVSE usually has a 25' heavy duty cord too, and we don't worry about it. A similarly heavy source cord (like RV use) carefully run should be no different. A 6-gauge 50A cord should be plenty of overkill. I think when people run into trouble, it's not going thick enough.
I mostly agree, but as with anything electrical, it's worth laying out all the risks that we know about and admitting that we're not electricians so there's probably a lot we are overlooking.

So the biggest takeaway is do-what-you-want, but don't blame me! :)

The EVSE has several forms of protections (thermal, ground fault, and others) in place, but they BEGIN at the EVSE box. Anything upstream, including the EVSE's power cord and wall wiring, and any extension cable, is outside of that protection.

This means, importantly, that if insulator protecting the user-supplied extension cable is damaged, it's unprotected from ground or arc faults, and there is greater risk of fire or shock.

I don't know if "50A rated" extension cords with 30A plug and inlet ends are available. Maybe they are? If not, you could make this from parts at a home supply store. Be sure that the conductor gauge requirements for the plug and receptacle (specified as a min-max AWG range) are compatible with the lower gauge 50A conductors.

Romex or NM-B cables are not designed for use in exposed locations. The insulator protecting it is really minimal and easily damaged.

There are other cables which are approved for use as "cords." Definitely look for those if planning to make an extension cord.

The other option is what @JamieGeek often promotes, which is a J1772 extension cable. Many of the same caveats apply here, though... Apparently, they are never within code because the maximum approved length for an EVSE J1772 cable is 25'.
 

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I mostly agree, but as with anything electrical, it's worth laying out all the risks that we know about and admitting that we're not electricians so there's probably a lot we are overlooking.

So the biggest takeaway is do-what-you-want, but don't blame me! :)

The EVSE has several forms of protections (thermal, ground fault, and others) in place, but they BEGIN at the EVSE box. Anything upstream, including the EVSE's power cord and wall wiring, and any extension cable, is outside of that protection.

This means, importantly, that if insulator protecting the user-supplied extension cable is damaged, it's unprotected from ground or arc faults, and there is greater risk of fire or shock.

I don't know if "50A rated" extension cords with 30A plug and inlet ends are available. Maybe they are? If not, you could make this from parts at a home supply store. Be sure that the conductor gauge requirements for the plug and receptacle (specified as a min-max AWG range) are compatible with the lower gauge 50A conductors.

Romex or NM-B cables are not designed for use in exposed locations. The insulator protecting it is really minimal and easily damaged.

There are other cables which are approved for use as "cords." Definitely look for those if planning to make an extension cord.

The other option is what @JamieGeek often promotes, which is a J1772 extension cable. Many of the same caveats apply here, though... Apparently, they are never within code because the maximum approved length for an EVSE J1772 cable is 25'.
Interesting; where did you find the max approved cable length? The only thing I've found when googling it was from this post:

A more serious concern with very long cables would be capacitance affecting the pilot signal. J1772 specifies limits of 300pF for the EVSE itself, 3100pF for the EVSE/cable combination, plus 2400pF for the car's input. Typical cable has a capacitance of about 100pF/metre, so the J1772 spec is allowing for a max cable length of about 28m - you could go further with a cable specially made to reduce capacitance. It will probably work in practice to a slightly longer length since the car probably isn't using its whole allowance, and the limits in the standard will be conservative. But if you go too far over, the effect will be inability to charge at all.
28 meters = 91 feet
 

macchiaz-o

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Interesting; where did you find the max approved cable length?
Search for maximum EVSE cable length instead of maximum J1772 length. Here's an electric company's excerpt from California Electric Code:

https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/ev5pt3.pdf

Cables and Connectors: EV charging cables must not exceed 25 feet in length, and they cannot have mid-cord couplings. Cables must be type EV, EVJ, EVE, EVJE, EVT, or EVJT flexible cable. EV charging cables and connectors come with the charger (CEC §625.17). The connector must include an interlock to de-energize it when it is unplugged from the vehicle, or when it is subjected to stress that may rupture or break it, or when it becomes a shock hazard (CEC §625.18). The grounding pole for conductive connectors are the first contact made and last broken (CEC §625.9). For inductive charging, the EV and EVSE are electricallys isolated which prevents shock hazard.

And here is text from NFPA NEC 625.17(C):

(C) Overall Cord and Cable Length. The overall useable length shall not exceed 7.5 m (25 ft)
unless equipped with a cable management system that is part of a listed the electric vehicle
supply equipment or electric vehicle charging system.

(1) Where the electric vehicle supply equipment or charging system is not fixed in place, the
cord exposed useable length shall be measured from the face of the attachment plug to the face
of the electric vehicle connector.

(2) Where the electric vehicle supply equipment or charging system is fixed in place, the useable
length of the output cable shall be measured from the cable exit of the electric vehicle supply
equipment or charging system to the face of the electric vehicle connector.
 

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Search for maximum EVSE cable length instead of maximum J1772 length. Here's an electric company's excerpt from California Electric Code:

https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/ev5pt3.pdf

Cables and Connectors: EV charging cables must not exceed 25 feet in length, and they cannot have mid-cord couplings. Cables must be type EV, EVJ, EVE, EVJE, EVT, or EVJT flexible cable. EV charging cables and connectors come with the charger (CEC §625.17). The connector must include an interlock to de-energize it when it is unplugged from the vehicle, or when it is subjected to stress that may rupture or break it, or when it becomes a shock hazard (CEC §625.18). The grounding pole for conductive connectors are the first contact made and last broken (CEC §625.9). For inductive charging, the EV and EVSE are electricallys isolated which prevents shock hazard.

And here is text from NFPA NEC 625.17(C):

(C) Overall Cord and Cable Length. The overall useable length shall not exceed 7.5 m (25 ft)
unless equipped with a cable management system that is part of a listed the electric vehicle
supply equipment or electric vehicle charging system.

(1) Where the electric vehicle supply equipment or charging system is not fixed in place, the
cord exposed useable length shall be measured from the face of the attachment plug to the face
of the electric vehicle connector.

(2) Where the electric vehicle supply equipment or charging system is fixed in place, the useable
length of the output cable shall be measured from the cable exit of the electric vehicle supply
equipment or charging system to the face of the electric vehicle connector.
Ah I see its a building code and not a strict J1772 technical requirement.

Looks like the extension cord is also prohibited due to it creating a "mid-cord coupling" as well.

Althought that (c) section seems to imply if you have a cable management system you can go longer than 25ft.
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