GTPE extra torque

[Davedough]

I think we should be complaining about a guy’s GT-PE having been delivered to the wrong dealer then it was damaged in transport to the correct dealer. Oh, wait… ??

How’s that grille holding up Dave? ??

LOL

The repair is fine. Everything looks great and looks factory. The problem I have is not getting PPF on the front end and that damn hood chips badly. I've already run out of paint for fixing those chips.

Honestly, I'm pretty over this car these days and waiting for the impending ticking time bomb that is HVJB failure (mine hasn't happened yet, but it will). But with the current interest rates and with the market value of these cars tanking thanks to the universal price reduction, it would be silly for me to sell it.

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[AKgrampy]

Not that this is exactly similar (or maybe even close) but we had a large industrial load that someone turned off their DC power in their substation essentially eliminating their 5 second rule (trip for overload.) Someone then dug into a 3-phase cable. The fault looked like a larger than normal load to us - to them everything began to glow and their entire substation burned to the ground. Not saying this would happen to the Mach but I hope there is a camera recording seconds 6 thru 10 just in case!

 

[ATL]

The fault looked like a larger than normal load to us - to them everything began to glow and their entire substation burned to the ground.

Using a power transformer winding as a current limiting reactor has never been a "best practice"!?‍?

 

[HuntingPudel]

LOL

The repair is fine. Everything looks great and looks factory. The problem I have is not getting PPF on the front end and that damn hood chips badly. I've already run out of paint for fixing those chips.

Honestly, I'm pretty over this car these days and waiting for the impending ticking time bomb that is HVJB failure (mine hasn't happened yet, but it will). But with the current interest rates and with the market value of these cars tanking thanks to the universal price reduction, it would be silly for me to sell it.

I had a great quote on PPF from my tint guy. I did not want to part with the car for a week for him to install it though, so no PPF. ??

Before my car got “customized” in the grocery store parking lot I had a bunch of chips. The mobile paint people fixed those when they fixed the vandalism damage and so far I haven’t gotten a new chip. ??

 

[Mach1E]

This is the point of the software limitation. It's supposed to be conservative enough not to break it. You want to know what happens when they get it wrong? You get a fiasco like the HVBJB.

HVJB is an unrelated issue. Happens in rwd select and non-GT AWD models too.

“Too much power” wasn’t the problem. If HVJB was a GT only issue, it would be relevant to this discussion.

But yeah, of course manufacturers are conservative not to break things. But the margin of error is usually HUGE. Large enough to add 300 hp for example on a stock Mustang GT with a supercharger.

 

[Mach1E]

The motors may be able to make a combined 562hp, but the batteries and electrical components are not capable of providing the power needed for them to do so.
Sure it's a software limitation but for good reason. I pity the poor soul who actually succeeds in removing this limitation.

Source?

Or is this just speculation?

My guess is they actually CAN handle it. Not forever, but a few more seconds certainty seems possible.

We are talking about an increase of less than 20% in horsepower that requires ZERO increase in tq. (Just allowing for more tq for more rpm). It’s really not that much more than we already have.

Peak tq happens around 4000 rpm now (around 40 mph).

To get 562hp, it only need to extend to 4650 rpm (around 47 mph).

That’ll happen in much less than a second.

 

[Mach1E]

Not that this is exactly similar (or maybe even close) but we had a large industrial load that someone turned off their DC power in their substation essentially eliminating their 5 second rule (trip for overload.) Someone then dug into a 3-phase cable. The fault looked like a larger than normal load to us - to them everything began to glow and their entire substation burned to the ground. Not saying this would happen to the Mach but I hope there is a camera recording seconds 6 thru 10 just in case!

It wouldn’t be a GT thread about power limits without someone making up a story about our cars bursting into flames.

If you honestly believe your car is only seconds away from bursting into flames……. Sell it now!

But if you want to feel better……. It’s not.

Number of electric cars that have bursted into flames due to overheating from acceleration- zero.

No clue why people think a few more seconds of acceleration equals a fireball. Fun fact- even during the 5 seconds our battery and components are actually getting COOLER! Temps spike when you initially floor it then go down. Logs prove this.

 

[Awmustang]

Source?

Or is this just speculation?

My guess is they actually CAN handle it. Not forever, but a few more seconds certainty seems possible.

We are talking about an increase of less than 20% in horsepower that requires ZERO increase in tq. (Just allowing for more tq for more rpm). It’s really not that much more than we already have.

Peak tq happens around 4000 rpm now (around 40 mph).

To get 562hp, it only need to extend to 4650 rpm (around 47 mph).

That’ll happen in much less than a second.

I don't have a link for you, but it was an article in Car and Driver or perhaps a response to a reader letter? The question was exactly this. If both electric motors are capable of X hp in a 2 motor setup why is the total hp listed for the car less than 2X. And they said that the batteries and other electronic components are incapable of providing the power required to produce max hp in both motors simultaneously. So you may wonder why not just put less powerful motors in but the ability to drive one of the motors at max hp while the other is at less than max is advantageous.

Now I suppose that they could have meant incapable because of a software limitation and not a hardware limitation. However, there is a definite limit to how quickly the batteries can discharge, so it might not be a burst into flames situation so much as different battery chemistry could have different limitations.

 

[Thor2j]

It shows up in the 0-60 (which is the only place it would).

GTPE averages .1 to .2 faster (but not the .3 advertised except with perfect traction at the drag strip).

Only place I’ve seen someone post a 3.5 or better 0-60 is at a super sticky drag strip. It’s definitely traction dependent.

But yeah, all the fastest 0-60 dragy times are from GTPE.

They have much stickier tires. All seasons vs summer tires. I've seen GT run as fast as GTPE on same tires.

 

[Johnny572]

Yes, please. The 5 sec really sucks.
At a minimum, they should add a drag race mode that opens it up for 1 launch at a time.

EV6 has a button and has to be above 80% SOC to get full send!
Mach E should be the same .

 

[AKgrampy]

It wouldn’t be a GT thread about power limits without someone making up a story about our cars bursting into flames.

If you honestly believe your car is only seconds away from bursting into flames……. Sell it now!

But if you want to feel better……. It’s not.

Number of electric cars that have bursted into flames due to overheating from acceleration- zero.

No clue why people think a few more seconds of acceleration equals a fireball. Fun fact- even during the 5 seconds our battery and components are actually getting COOLER! Temps spike when you initially floor it then go down. Logs prove this.

Well you may be correct but physics pretty much says you are wrong. Not sure where temp readings take place in the car but it is a simple fact that when you push amps thru a wire it heats up. You push enough amps and you can melt wire. So there is no way the buss bar cools down as amps flow through it. Air or liquid cooling will help but the cooling is not instantaneous as I doubt the cooling is internal to the bus but I do not know that so perhaps I am wrong. I do not worry about my car going up in flames but there must be some reason, such as overheating, that the battery pack manufacturer stipulated the 5 second limitation. Or Ford just wanted to make everyone perturbed for no reason? I guess the HVBJB switches are also freezing shut from cooling temps and not melting from overheating due the high currents melting them.

 

[AliRafiee]

That’s another thing that’s missing in the car. A battery temperature reading.
My shitty LEAF had that and SOH display.

 

[Mach1E]

Well you may be correct but physics pretty much says you are wrong. Not sure where temp readings take place in the car but it is a simple fact that when you push amps thru a wire it heats up. You push enough amps and you can melt wire. So there is no way the buss bar cools down as amps flow through it. Air or liquid cooling will help but the cooling is not instantaneous as I doubt the cooling is internal to the bus but I do not know that so perhaps I am wrong. I do not worry about my car going up in flames but there must be some reason, such as overheating, that the battery pack manufacturer stipulated the 5 second limitation. Or Ford just wanted to make everyone perturbed for no reason? I guess the HVBJB switches are also freezing shut from cooling temps and not melting from overheating due the high currents melting them.

Sorry, but no.

You say things like “physics” and “simple fact,” but the reality is that you’re making this up to scare people……. And it isn’t true.

Heat is an issue, that is correct.

But risk of fire? Complete hogwash.

Here is a screenshot of the temperature readings during multiple back to back full throttle runs:

Your eyes don’t deceive you, that shows the temps spiking and then dropping even during the full throttle run. And the battery temp? Barely changes.

Again, heat is an issue. But we are nowhere even remotely close to a fire.

And……again…..the HVJB is a completely separate issue. Not GT specific, NOT related to the horsepower limit nor the 5 second limit. The regular models weld shut too if they got a “bad” one. No need to bring it up in this discussion.

You are correct though that “there is a reason” for the 5 second limit. Because Ford spilled the beans at one point: They don’t have enough temp sensors and they don’t respond quickly enough.

So we got training wheels because they weren’t comfortable enough to be sure that heat wasn’t an issue.

But that doesn’t mean that 5 seconds is the REAL limit before things break. They created a cushion. My bet is the cushion is significant since again, no GTs have broken due to acceleration.

TLDR; 5 seconds is the limit they gave us. But that doesn’t mean it’s the real limit the car is capable of before melting. And catching fire just isn’t a thing.

 

[Mach1E]

EV6 has a button and has to be above 80% SOC to get full send!
Mach E should be the same .

No, please no!

Our full power is ready “any time it’s ready.”

Why would you want to have to hit a button rather than just pushing the accelerator pedal?

Definitely don’t want a button. But I am jealous they get 10 seconds and when “off boost” don’t lose nearly as much horsepower.

 

[Mach1E]

They have much stickier tires. All seasons vs summer tires. I've seen GT run as fast as GTPE on same tires.

You’ve seen GT run “almost” as fast on the same tires.

GTPE will still always be exactly “34 lb/ft” faster with traction.

For sure tires are a big part of the advertised 0-60 difference, but the extra tq still matters. The fastest recorded 0-60 are still held by GTPE (two different ones at the drag strip were below 3.5).

Lack of traction is also an equalizer. Even with the brand new summer tires, my GTPE would spin at launch then again around 25 mph on the street.

Now with almost 7,000 miles on the stock tires, I have to roll into the throttle at any speed under 30 to keep from spinning significantly.

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