Heat Pump Performance - Anything to Report?

[E90alex]

I don't think I've seen this addressed yet, but somebody in the North probably knows, now that heat pump cars have been sold for one full winter season.

They have not. This is the first winter for any Mach-E with a heat pump. They didn’t get into customer hands until like May of 2025.

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[Jimrpa]

The Mach-E's 2025 heat pump is a real asset for winter: it provides good thermal comfort without draining the battery like a conventional heater. In everyday use, this means you can get through mild winters without sacrificing battery life. However, it's not a perfect solution for extreme cold or intensive use.

Could you please provide objective data and comparisons to back that assertion up? The manufacturer has not provided us with any objective, specific data on the impact of the heat pump on range versus the resistive heaters. They’ve only provided us with a smaller frunk.

 

[ATL]

I stand (or sit) corrected..

 

[ChrisO]

People who believe heat pump is not improving the range or more efficient than old heater elements are simply wrong. Copilot or not, there is enough literature and cold weather studies to confirm this.
However, what we need to try figuring out is just how much / little the improvement is. Ideally we would have same car / wheel setup, temperature and driving route for some hours, then do that 2-3 times to try to control for the factors we can control. Ultimately it would be an improvement, but by how much is hard to say.

I probably didn’t state this clearly but I definitely believe it makes a difference I’m just leaning towards the belief that other factors will have a greater impact on it.

 

[E90alex]

I am curious if it’s documented anywhere at which point does the backup PTC heater kick in? Because then surely we can’t expect any efficiency improvements below that temperature threshold.

 

[Jimrpa]

Some people keep claiming the 2025s have smaller batteries. The extended range battery usable capacity published by Ford hasn’t changed from MY21. Note that the standard range battery usable capacity is less because Ford made a battery pack chemistry change.​

2025 Mustang Mach-E Technical Specifications

 

[Jimrpa]

I am curious if it’s documented anywhere at which point does the backup PTC heater kick in? Because then surely we can’t expect any efficiency improvements below that temperature threshold.

I would actually expect a further degradation (just as I notice in my home system) if both a struggling heat pump AND an electric resistive heater are trying to keep the cabin comfortable. Hopefully Ford is bright enough to turn off the heat pump when it’s useless.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

For / to discussion and as a documentation that heat pumps generally are favorable (outperforms heating elements) in EVs (abstract summarizes the articles / papers

https://evs38-program.org/images/Proceedings/H Electric Vehicle management/370_A Comparison of Heat Pump and Resistive Heating Impacts on Battery Electric Vehicle Energy Consumption and Range in Cold Temperatures.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960148125015903

They lost me at “exergy” . The conclusion is counterintuitive. I would have thought that a hybrid approach would be most efficient as it can leverage best of both worlds.

 

[ChrisO]

Some people keep claiming the 2025s have smaller batteries. The extended range battery usable capacity published by Ford hasn’t changed from MY21. Note that the standard range battery usable capacity is less because Ford made a battery pack chemistry change.​

2025 Mustang Mach-E Technical Specifications

The 2024 extended range battery had 91 kWh. The 2025 has 88 kWh which is the same as the 2021 but a reduction from 2024.

 

[luckie]

The 2024 extended range battery had 91 kWh. The 2025 has 88 kWh which is the same as the 2021 but a reduction from 2024.

I believe all extended range Mach-Es from 2021 onward have had the same battery, it would be of interest if that changed for 2025 or not. I do notice, of course, dealership descriptions do sometimes say 88kWh or 91 kWh but not sure that’s accurate. Also the true battery capacity versus the useable capacity also muddies the waters on this topic.

I also believe the 2025 model years have both resistive heat and the heat pump, and I’m curious if the reason the car gets warm really quickly is that resistive heat is used immediately when you start a journey and thus on short drives one would not get the full benefit of the heat pump.

 

[E90alex]

Some people keep claiming the 2025s have smaller batteries. The extended range battery usable capacity published by Ford hasn’t changed from MY21. Note that the standard range battery usable capacity is less because Ford made a battery pack chemistry change.​

2025 Mustang Mach-E Technical Specifications

The 2024 extended range battery had 91 kWh. The 2025 has 88 kWh which is the same as the 2021 but a reduction from 2024.

21-24 physical battery is the same. 21 debuted with 88kWh usable but it was software limited and later updated to allow 91kWh usable to match 22-24 after Ford decided they didn’t need as big of a hidden buffer.

2025 extended range received a smaller 88kWh usable battery. Despite the same 88kWh number as 2021 originally, is NOT simply software limited like the 2021 was. It’s actually a battery with physically less battery cells inside.

2025+ GT/Rally retains the older full 91kWh usable battery.

 

[E90alex]

I also believe the 2025 model years have both resistive heat and the heat pump, and I’m curious if the reason the car gets warm really quickly is that resistive heat is used immediately when you start a journey and thus on short drives one would not get the full benefit of the heat pump.

The PTC heater should only be used in extreme situations in theory.

I don’t know why everyone seems to think heat pumps need a long time to generate heat?? I don’t notice any delay in heat in my 2025 Mach-E or my prior Tesla with heat pump. Maybe it’s marginally slower (as in less than a minute) than nearly instantaneous like PTC heater but at any rate still much faster than any ICE vehicle. Y'all make it sound like heat pumps take 15 minutes to get warm or something.

 

[CarGuy11]

The PTC heater should only be used in extreme situations in theory.

I don’t know why everyone seems to think heat pumps need a long time to generate heat?? I don’t notice any delay in heat in my 2025 Mach-E or my prior Tesla with heat pump. Maybe it’s marginally slower (as in less than a minute) than nearly instantaneous like PTC heater but at any rate still much faster than any ICE vehicle. Y'all make it sound like heat pumps take 15 minutes to get warm or something.

How does the heat pump sound in frigid conditions? Does it get noisy like a remote start on a very hot day?

 

[ChrisO]

Does anyone know what COP value the heat pump is supposed to be rated at?

 

[davegram]

Could you please provide objective data and comparisons to back that assertion up? The manufacturer has not provided us with any objective, specific data on the impact of the heat pump on range versus the resistive heaters. They’ve only provided us with a smaller frunk.

I just posted a thread with what I've found so far in measuring the range of my 2025. I'll have a more comprehensive dataset in another month or so.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/my-2025-heat-pump-efficiency-data-thus-far.51363/

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