How do geomagnetic storms impact EVs?

[DR.J56]

I survived Y2K and 2012. I hope I get through this..

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[Carsinmyblood]

The Druids are gathering at Stonehenge as we speak.

 

[Maquis]

Can one use the same tin foil hat for the solar event and an EMP attack? Asking for a friend…..

 

[RickMachE]

 

[ChasingCoral]

The geomagnetic disturbances at ground level caused by the interaction of space weather such as solar coronal mass ejections with the geomagnetic field induce strong electric fields at ground level that couple into the power grid. Extreme space weather events can cause geomagnetically induced currents sufficient to cause power grid instabilities and even damage to the high voltage transformers in the grid. An infamous 1989 space weather event caused the failure of the power grid in Quebec as well as other impacts such as the explosion of a large transformer at a nuclear power plant in NJ. In 2013 an even larger coronal mass ejection just missed the Earth. Had we been in a slightly different position there would likely have been enormous impacts. So the question raised about impacts to EVs is a reasonable one.

Even more concerning are the impacts of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack on the power grid, such as from the exoatmospheric detonation of a nuclear device. A high altitude EMP generates an instantaneous high intensity gamma ray burst that fries nearly all modern electronics under its sizeable footprint, then a lightning like phase, and finally a geomagnetic disturbance similar to space weather events.

I am working with groups modeling these impacts, working on ways to mitigate risk and also to optimize grid blackstart operations after grid down events.

As a geophysicist working in this area as well as a multiple EV owner (including a MME FE job 1 owner getting tired of waiting for OTAs, BC, etc) I've brought up the issue to knowledgeable parties in the auto industry of risks to motor vehicles from EMP and to a lessor extent to space weather events.

While it would be hard to harden ICE cars against EMP given the amount of reengineering required to deeply entrenched designs, since EVs are in their infancy it would be good for the industry to agree on and adopt standards to harden EVs against these risks, which they have not yet done. Fir instance when you see plastic high voltage battery pack housings rather than metal Faraday shield housings, it's clear that EMPs were never considered...

Given the emerging vehicle-to-grid capabilities of newer EVs, EMP-resistant EVs could be an essential resource for keeping the country powered until power can be restored, say if some east Asian dictator armed with nukes and ICBMs decided to let one off over North America...

If you are interested in the topic search on YouTube for "PBS Terra". There are a couple of episodes that cover some of these issues, one of which I contributed to.

Following on to focus on BEVs, the only real concern are irregularities in power caused by a large storm (blown transformers, etc.). However, the risks from thunderstorms are much higher. High-voltage transmission lines collect energy from the storms by acting as very large antennas. The length of the charging cable and size of the car are too small to directly pick up surges a geomagnetic storm.

The biggest remaining issue is the car's reliance on wireless telecommunication (cell phone) signals. Those are likely to be minor and intermittent as well.

 

[dmastro]

In the event of earthquakes that cause bridges to collapse and roads to buckle, many EVs will be rendered unable to drive over such conditions. We should consider hardening them against these threats by equipping them with wings and jet engines so they can fly over dangerous conditions.

 

[ChasingCoral]

In the event of earthquakes that cause bridges to collapse and roads to buckle, many EVs will be rendered unable to drive over such conditions. We should consider hardening them against these threats by equipping them with wings and jet engines so they can fly over dangerous conditions.

That's why GMC invented the e-Hummer, right?

 

[Jimbo]

A whole lotta ostriches in this thread.

Am I concerned about how a Carrington-level event or HEMP nuke would affect my car per se while driving/sitting unplugged? No, although given it contains 4,237 microchips, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two fried and I lost the foot-activated liftgate.

Am I concerned about how one would affect the grid, and therefore anything plugged into it or any other long-line cable that hasn't been been transient-hardened and tested as per MIL-STD 188-125 or the like (just about everything, including my car)? Yes. Kinda sucks how a small state actor like KJU could cause billions of dollars in damage to the entire western seaboard with a single nuke, while detonating it so high, it doesn't directly kill a single person.

 

[Mach1E]

A whole lotta ostriches in this thread.

Am I concerned about how a Carrington-level event or HEMP nuke would affect my car per se while driving/sitting unplugged? No, although given it contains 4,237 microchips, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two fried and I lost the foot-activated liftgate.

Am I concerned about how one would affect the grid, and therefore anything plugged into it or any other long-line cable that hasn't been been transient-hardened and tested as per MIL-STD 188-125 or the like (just about everything, including my car)? Yes. Kinda sucks how a small state actor like KJU could cause billions of dollars in damage to the entire western seaboard with a single nuke, while detonating it so high, it doesn't directly kill a single person.

You seem to be insinuating that the people who aren’t scared of how nuclear attacks will affect our cars are the crazy ones?

I found it’s much better not to keep up at night thinking about things you can do absolutely nothing to prevent or mitigate.

 

[dmastro]

A whole lotta ostriches in this thread.

Am I concerned about how a Carrington-level event or HEMP nuke would affect my car per se while driving/sitting unplugged? No, although given it contains 4,237 microchips, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two fried and I lost the foot-activated liftgate.

Am I concerned about how one would affect the grid, and therefore anything plugged into it or any other long-line cable that hasn't been been transient-hardened and tested as per MIL-STD 188-125 or the like (just about everything, including my car)? Yes. Kinda sucks how a small state actor like KJU could cause billions of dollars in damage to the entire western seaboard with a single nuke, while detonating it so high, it doesn't directly kill a single person.

Well, since you put it that way, I'm going to move forward with a nuclear hardened auto bunker under the house.

I don't think there are ostriches in this thread. I think there are a lot of people who understand that the risk of what is being suggested here is extremely remote and really rather unimportant in the grand scheme of life. I have much more plausible threats in life to ignore.

 

[Jimbo]

You seem to be insinuating that the people who aren’t scared of how nuclear attacks will affect our cars are the crazy ones?

Keep your words out of my mouth.

And good to know all it takes for you to call someone crazy is for them to not deny the well-studied effects of large CMEs or nuclear airbursts or the possibility that either could ever occur again.

 

[Mach1E]

Keep your words out of my mouth.

And good to know all it takes for you to call someone crazy is for them to not deny the well-studied effects of large CMEs or nuclear airbursts or the possibility that either could ever occur again.

Lol, you called us crazy with the ostrich comment.

Where did anyone deny the possibility of nuclear attack?

And here I thought this was a car forum. This thread sure took a dark turn..

 

[ChuckA]

During thunderstorms we get out of the shower, don’t stand under trees, get away from windows, don’t touch metal sink fixtures, and turn off tv. Now we unplug the EV. No problem.

 

[Chuck]

Our local weather guy (he’s awesome) posted this in regards to a solar flare that occurred yesterday. I know there’s impacts to the grid in most severe storms, and as a result it’s probably not the best idea to be charging during a geomagnetic storm. Aside from that, I’m curious if any electricians/battery experts can weigh in on if there’s other concerns w/r/t the HVB and other sensitive components in a Mach E (or EV in general)?

If I were you I'd move to a place where they don't have these storms. Sounds like it's too stressful.

Aside: I can't help you whatsoever. I haven't seen a thunderstorm in more than a decade here in SoCal. Geomagnetic storms sound ominous.

 

[A-A-Ron]

If I were you I'd move to a place where they don't have these storms. Sounds like it's too stressful.

Any recommendations for a good planet without solar storms? Asking for a friend.

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