How much privacy would you sacrifice to get an EV?

[Jimrpa]

- DevSecOps posted this disturbing link in another thread:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/p...t-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

- Kia's Privacy Policy (https://www.kia.com/us/en/privacy) gives them permission to collect data about your "racial or ethnic origin, religious or philosophical beliefs; union membership; genetic data; unique biometric information; contents of certain mail, emails, and text messages; or health, sex life or sexual orientation information" (bold/underline is mine). WTF? How is any of that Kia's business? And who exactly are their "affiliates" they share the data with?

- Other members here are concerned about privacy when purchasing Chinese designed, US built cars.

- Tesla workers shared "highly invasive" camera captures from customer vehicles in an employee chat room. BMW, GM, Volvo, Honda also have or are planning to introduce cabin cameras.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/...-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

- Ford hopefully collects less data on its owners, but to opt out of data collection I think you need to cancel your FordPass account altogether?

I guess I'm hanging onto the illusion of privacy. In reality, we have no privacy as EVs get further connected and cars are turned into mobile data collection centers. Will these issues influence your next EV purchase?

Clearly my sex life and sexual orientation is important information for Kia to have as they design future products. After all, I want to be sure there are proper anchor points for my fur-lined handcuffs, should I decide to turn my car into a mobile S&M dungeon (don't judge, people claim to supposedly "car camp"!)?

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[LincolnLuvr]

The Genesis GV60 comes to mind. On higher trims, it features facial recognition for quick unlocking of the car. Is your facial mapping only stored locally on the car with the option to delete or is a copy shared with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis servers?

 

[AliRafiee]

Good point. I guess I’ll borrow my neighbor’s EV next time I’m doing something illegal. ?

 

[Mach1E]

Great points! I also would never buy a Tesla for privacy and other issues. Hopefully Congress can pass some vehicle privacy laws (not holding my breath though). But as I noted above, it's not just a privacy issue...our personal data storage needs to be safeguarded from hacks.

Most of this stuff doesn’t matter and all they do is use it to sell you advertisements.

Want to know why smart TVs are so cheap? Because they make more $$ off selling ad space than the TV itself.

There are a few invasion of privacy things that worry me-

Volvo- installing cameras to tell if the driver is drunk. I get the idea, but I don’t like the big brother reporting criminal activity aspect of it.

Tesla- the times Elon Musk has tweeted details of a crash when deaths are involved. He tells the world whether or not autopilot was engaged when a car slams into a tree, catches fire, and the occupants die. Just absolutely insane he would tell the world it’s the drivers fault they died.

Even in the 90s, GM cars with OnStar could track location, speed etc. The fear was that the government would somehow start mailing you tickets if you sped.

The reality though is that your phones know waaaaaaaay more about you than your car does.

Privacy is an illusion. But what should worry us is who has access to the info and what they do with the information.

 

[LincolnLuvr]

Most of this stuff doesn’t matter and all they do is use it to sell you advertisements.

Want to know why smart TVs are so cheap? Because they make more $$ off selling ad space than the TV itself.

There are a few invasion of privacy things that worry me-

Volvo- installing cameras to tell if the driver is drunk. I get the idea, but I don’t like the big brother reporting criminal activity aspect of it.

Tesla- the times Elon Musk has tweeted details of a crash when deaths are involved. He tells the world whether or not autopilot was engaged when a car slams into a tree, catches fire, and the occupants die. Just absolutely insane he would tell the world it’s the drivers fault they died.

Even in the 90s, GM cars with OnStar could track location, speed etc. The fear was that the government would somehow start mailing you tickets if you sped.

The reality though is that your phones know waaaaaaaay more about you than your car does.

Privacy is an illusion. But what should worry us is who has access to the info and what they do with the information.

Next 5-10 years in the EV world will be interesting!

 

[Unobtanium]

- DevSecOps posted this disturbing link in another thread:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/p...t-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

- Kia's Privacy Policy (https://www.kia.com/us/en/privacy) gives them permission to collect data about your "racial or ethnic origin, religious or philosophical beliefs; union membership; genetic data; unique biometric information; contents of certain mail, emails, and text messages; or health, sex life or sexual orientation information" (bold/underline is mine). WTF? How is any of that Kia's business? And who exactly are their "affiliates" they share the data with?

- Other members here are concerned about privacy when purchasing Chinese designed, US built cars.

- Tesla workers shared "highly invasive" camera captures from customer vehicles in an employee chat room. BMW, GM, Volvo, Honda also have or are planning to introduce cabin cameras.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/...-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

- Ford hopefully collects less data on its owners, but to opt out of data collection I think you need to cancel your FordPass account altogether?

I guess I'm hanging onto the illusion of privacy. In reality, we have no privacy as EVs get further connected and cars are turned into mobile data collection centers. Will these issues influence your next EV purchase?

I dont care. The government has my fingerprints on file updated almost yearly, current photos of me, all that jazz. FBI background checks sometimes multiple times per year. Kia knowing Im a White cis gendered male doesn't mean a thing to me.

 

[George Knighton]

Apple's insistence on certain privacy standards is why some manufacturers are moving away from CarPlay. They don't want to pay for adherence to Apple interface standards while also giving up on data mining.

On the other hand, I don't mind people knowing where I am and location services is an important feature of CarPlay and Ford navigation's emergency services.

If you're watching YouTube videos in the car or at home, you've already surrendered your privacy to that extent.

I dunno. Maybe we worry too much.

 

[thekat03]

Apple's insistence on certain privacy standards is why some manufacturers are moving away from CarPlay. They don't want to pay for adherence to Apple interface standards while also giving up on data mining.

On the other hand, I don't mind people knowing where I am and location services is an important feature of CarPlay and Ford navigation's emergency services.

If you're watching YouTube videos in the car or at home, you've already surrendered your privacy to that extent.

I dunno. Maybe we worry too much.

There definitely are benefits to being able to track locations of things. My husband and I often use Google maps on road trips to share our progress, so our family can see when we are likely to arrive, and if there may be delays. However, ideally, we should be able to give informed consent of what is tracked, and how it will be used.

 

[RKinWA]

I used to be a real stickler for "privacy", until I woke up. It seems at least once a month I get a letter informing me my data has been compromised from one company or another. I signed up with DeleteMe and they listed my personal information on over 1200 sources (and that's just the ones they know about), there have been numerous breaches where China or Russia have obtained government records through breaches including all personal data, every street and business has multiple cameras recording every move, 1/2 the people you see walking around are recording people everywhere in hopes of getting a viral TikTok or YouTube video, our phones are listening to every word, our TV's are watching every move, Alexa and Google devices are listening 24/7, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and Google know more about us than we do... I could go on. Anyone that thinks even for a second we have any privacy left is deluding themselves, and it's just going to get more invasive. Short of locking yourself away in a remote cabin high on a mountain top completely disconnected from the grid, there's no getting away from it. ?

 

[LincolnLuvr]

I dont care. The government has my fingerprints on file updated almost yearly, current photos of me, all that jazz. FBI background checks sometimes multiple times per year. Kia knowing Im a White cis gendered male doesn't mean a thing to me.

I think that view is a little myopic. The privacy issues aren't just limited to the government, but the auto manufacturer, any affiliates the auto manufacturer sells your data to, and any bad actors that might potentially hack that data.

Also it's not just about being a white cisgendered male, but potentially all your text/phone conversations, emails, any and all personal/financial details in those communications, etc..

 

[Alan]

Also it's basically legal now for auto manufacturers to store whatever text message is sent to the car to read out loud for as long as they want, so since it's legal, you can safely bet that they are storing it.

I believe texts in the car can only be managed by Apple or Android SW, and it would likely be a huge liability for Ford to store any of those messages beyond them being cleared from the display. Perhaps they note that a message was handled by a specific phone and time through the car’s display and audio, but any data beyond that would probably have zero legitimate use to Ford, which would likely present greater legal liability to store than any marketing value might offer. So, my bet is that texts are never stored, unless sent by or to Ford.

 

[LincolnLuvr]

Apple's insistence on certain privacy standards is why some manufacturers are moving away from CarPlay. They don't want to pay for adherence to Apple interface standards while also giving up on data mining.

On the other hand, I don't mind people knowing where I am and location services is an important feature of CarPlay and Ford navigation's emergency services.

If you're watching YouTube videos in the car or at home, you've already surrendered your privacy to that extent.

I dunno. Maybe we worry too much.

Oh is that why manufacturers are moving away from CarPlay? Hadn't heard that reasoning before but it's an interesting one!

 

[Jimmyd]

I have no plans to buy a Kia at any point in my life, so don't have that issue. Yes, using connected services means a large amount of data is available to the car company.. You can simply go into the vehicle and turn off the connected services, and lose a bunch of capability.

how much capability?

 

[Oldlawman]

A piece of parcel tape across an in-car camera lens would work wonders. - wouldn’t it??

 

[RickMachE]

how much capability?

All connected services.

- handsfree BlueCruise
- Connected Navigation including weather
- OTA updates
- BlueOval Charge Network
- Remote start, stop, lock, unlock
- Sirius XM
- Alexa Built-In
- Apple CarPlay
- Android Auto
- WiFi hotspot
- Ford Collision Assist

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