Input, based on experience, on proposed solutions

[Maquis]

Hmm. They wouldn't manufacture and sell 1/2 height breakers if they weren't to code, although I suppose the recent code could prohibit them and some older townships haven't moved to the latest. I know that I had to put some 1/2 sized breakers in before finally upgrading my panel, but that was in the 2005-2008 timeframe. I put them on 15A circuits to free up room for a full-sized 40A A/C breaker.

They are not prohibited by the NEC, even the 2020. What the code does require is that the breakers installed in a panel be listed for that panel. The label on the panel will list what breakers are allowed in a panel and the panel manufacturer has no incentive to list competitor's breakers for use in their panel.
Some manufacturers do not make tandem breakers, so people will install breakers from other manufacturers because they physically fit. Basically today, all 1" breakers will fit in competitor's panels: Siemens, GE, Cutler-Hammer BR, and Square-D Homeline. But that would violate the listing and thus the NEC.
To further complicate matters, some panels will only accept tandems in certain positions and have a physical rejection feature on the bus or mounting rail to preclude their installation in an unallowed location.

There is also the issue of "classified vs. unclassified" tandems, but that's a whole other problem!

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[TRP]

I am so glad I live in an area where there are no "codes" or "inspectors". That just seems to add unnecessary cost and time. IMHO

We installed 2 50amp outlets to have 2 RVs plugged in. We don't cut corners or cheap out since we don't want a fire risk or some other hazard. My father in law is an electrician and advises us on what we can do safely but we do the work ourselves.

We have a townhouse in MD and hired an electrician to install a 14-50 right next to the panel in the garage. He charged us $400. We were fine with that because we wanted the outlet there when we drive the MME there next month and wouldn't have time to do it ourselves. Here in TN we just relocated one of our existing 14-50s to allow better access for charging the MME. Moved it about 15' total and between wire and conduit cost us $223

 

[timbop]

I am so glad I live in an area where there are no "codes" or "inspectors". That just seems to add unnecessary cost and time. IMHO

WHAT?!

Inspectors and codes are there to ensure that the work is done properly and safely. Sometimes that is annoying, but it protects everyone - the current homeowner and future homeowners. Have you never watched "Holmes on homes" on H&GTV? Unscrupulous or untrained people constantly try to do home repair/renovations on their own and without permits/inspections, and the next guy is the one who gets screwed when the incorrect/unsafe work fails.

Freedom includes the freedom from getting screwed or left "holding the bag" when things falls apart.

 

[TRP]

WHAT?!

Inspectors and codes are there to ensure that the work is done properly and safely. Sometimes that is annoying, but it protects everyone - the current homeowner and future homeowners. Have you never watched "Holmes on homes" on H&GTV? Unscrupulous or untrained people constantly try to do home repair/renovations on their own and without permits/inspections, and the next guy is the one who gets screwed when the incorrect/unsafe work fails.

Freedom includes the freedom from getting screwed or left "holding the bag" when things falls apart.

I knew my comment was going to illicit negative feedback.

I completely understand your position, I do, in fact I can agree with it too.
I'm just a DIY kind of person and prefer to do the work myself on my own schedule. I don't cut corners, especially when it comes to electrical work, too many things can go wrong. I also won't do work for others. I'm also not above hiring out the work to skilled craftsman. I did so with the outlet in our MD townhouse. Just because I don't have to go through the inspection/approval process here does not mean my work is not up to code. It is, I just saved a few bucks and time by doing it myself.

You're entitled to your opinion, no argument from me there.

P.S. I wasn't trying to start any arguments about what someone should or should not do. Just sharing my perspective or opinion. I'm comfortable with what I do/did, others may not be and that's fine

 

[RickMachE]

Spoke to electrical inspector who confirmed that doubling up the breakers is fine, and that no load shedding device was needed (he had never heard of that). And he said that my service could accept a 60amp circuit for a 48 amp charger just fine. One more estimate tomorrow, and 1-2 due in writing, and hope to pick 1 before week's end. The load shedding guy is off the list, too bad because he had chargers in stock.

 

[timbop]

I knew my comment was going to illicit negative feedback.

I completely understand your position, I do, in fact I can agree with it too.
I'm just a DIY kind of person and prefer to do the work myself on my own schedule. I don't cut corners, especially when it comes to electrical work, too many things can go wrong. I also won't do work for others. I'm also not above hiring out the work to skilled craftsman. I did so with the outlet in our MD townhouse. Just because I don't have to go through the inspection/approval process here does not mean my work is not up to code. It is, I just saved a few bucks and time by doing it myself.

You're entitled to your opinion, no argument from me there.

P.S. I wasn't trying to start any arguments about what someone should or should not do. Just sharing my perspective or opinion. I'm comfortable with what I do/did, others may not be and that's fine

I am generally a DIY guy myself - I am sitting in the 2 story 1300 sqft addition my brother and I built. I did all the electrical work myself, save for replacing the service panel. I also put in the 14-50 outlet in the garage for my EVSE. However, everything went through the permitting and inspection process. Yes that was a MAJOR PITA but it protects me when I sell the house, and it protects whoever buys the house from me.

I don't understand how your state doesn't require work to be done based on the national codes.

 

[benk016]

I am generally a DIY guy myself - I am sitting in the 2 story 1300 sqft addition my brother and I built. I did all the electrical work myself, save for replacing the service panel. I also put in the 14-50 outlet in the garage for my EVSE. However, everything went through the permitting and inspection process. Yes that was a MAJOR PITA but it protects me when I sell the house, and it protects whoever buys the house from me.

I don't understand how your state doesn't require work to be done based on the national codes. I wouldn't drive a car that didn't pass safety standards, so it doesn't make sense that I have to trust that the flipper who renovated the house I bought "did it right".

They likely do require it, just don't have an inspection process.

I'm pretty sure if something happened, and something wasn't up to code, homeowners insurance wouldn't cover it. Inspection or not, it has to meet current codes. But they would also have to prove that it was something not meeting code that caused the issue.

 

[Jimrpa]

I knew my comment was going to illicit negative feedback.

I completely understand your position, I do, in fact I can agree with it too.
I'm just a DIY kind of person and prefer to do the work myself on my own schedule. I don't cut corners, especially when it comes to electrical work, too many things can go wrong. I also won't do work for others. I'm also not above hiring out the work to skilled craftsman. I did so with the outlet in our MD townhouse. Just because I don't have to go through the inspection/approval process here does not mean my work is not up to code. It is, I just saved a few bucks and time by doing it myself.

You're entitled to your opinion, no argument from me there.

P.S. I wasn't trying to start any arguments about what someone should or should not do. Just sharing my perspective or opinion. I'm comfortable with what I do/did, others may not be and that's fine

I’m not picking on you, but it’s always “the other guy” who is the idiot running a dryer circuit on lamp cord, or using some aquarium tubing to connect a gas line to a stove they moved. ? I have a buddy who absolutely should know better who’s quite proud of the fact that he connects his portable generator to his house using a dead man’s cable, boasting that he’s not stupid, like all the other idiots ? (yeah, sure, whatever).

I like codes and inspectors and licensed professionals and insurance ?

 

[AZBill]

Each data point on this graph, just shows how much energy was going through my electric meter on the side of the house at that moment in time. 11kw charging does not equal 11kwh.

If I was pulling enough to register 11kwh on that graph, I would be charging from 0-100% in like 2 hours.

It polls every 15 minutes. So, I was using between 3 and 4 Kwh of consumption every 15 minutes. over 1 hour, thats about 12kwh. The times 4kwh was reported were likely when the AC kicked on for the house.

My electric company provides hourly data on their web site, so I was able to go back and look at my usage with 2 EVs charging at night (after 8pm). The night I brought home my Mach E, I had also run the Bolt down low that day going to look at the new car. During the early morning hours the next day, likely when the big AC unit also kicked on, I saw 23 KW peak. That would have been 95A on my 200A service. During on peak hours (3 to 8pm, cars not charging), my worst case this summer has been 10-11KW with both AC units running, that is 41A.

So for me it turns out I could charge 2 cars at 40A with 2 AC units running and only pull 120A, which is well below the 160 continuous for a 200A service. The AC units cycle, so they are not really a continuous load.

 

[TRP]

I am generally a DIY guy myself - I am sitting in the 2 story 1300 sqft addition my brother and I built. I did all the electrical work myself, save for replacing the service panel. I also put in the 14-50 outlet in the garage for my EVSE. However, everything went through the permitting and inspection process. Yes that was a MAJOR PITA but it protects me when I sell the house, and it protects whoever buys the house from me.

I don't understand how your state doesn't require work to be done based on the national codes.

I'm not saying TN doesn't have codes and inspectors. Codes are pretty universal and things need to be built/installed to meet or exceed them. There just happens to be no inspection process here other than a final inspection to take occupancy in a new construction. Other parts of the state may be very different.

I could have worded my original post differently. Codes are great, I don't like the inspection part because it slows things down and aggravates me (that's a personal issue). Having to get a permit for work also aggravates me but I do understand the reasoning and have complied when and where it was necessary. Again, not advocating that anyone skirt their local laws and regs.....just sharing my opinion

 

[TRP]

I’m not picking on you, but it’s always “the other guy” who is the idiot running a dryer circuit on lamp cord, or using some aquarium tubing to connect a gas line to a stove they moved. ? I have a buddy who absolutely should know better who’s quite proud of the fact that he connects his portable generator to his house using a dead man’s cable, boasting that he’s not stupid, like all the other idiots ? (yeah, sure, whatever).

I like codes and inspectors and licensed professionals and insurance ?

Yep, owned a house and found that all the basement lights were run with speaker wire. Did they work, yes...did I fix them correctly, again, yes

 

[RickMachE]

Many don't realize that some utility companies provide the ability to look at, and even download data, and may provide an app for some view / analysis. Ours provides all of that. I can look in an app and see usage by hour, day, week, with about a 24 hour delay. I can pay to get no delay, but don't choose to do that. The online data that I can download to Excel didn't get announced, it was just there one day, long after I input data from the app by hour...

That's how in 2018, months before our PHEV arrived, we switched to a Time of Day plan. I computed that only a few days in the heat of summer were "losing" days as compared to the standard rate plan. We have peak hours 11AM - 7PM Mon-Fri, and simply don't turn on the washer, dryer (gas but uses electricity for turning), dishwasher, or charge vehicles during that time. Even made sure our sprinkler system (well) is not running after 11AM if possible.

I can't get pretty graphs except in the app, but I can get usage by hour. We picked up our Mach-E on 7/2, fully charged. We got it down to 60% on 7/5, and plugged it in for charging starting 7PM. Of course our hourly usage isn't much higher because it doesn't pull much at 110. But I show 3.659 kWh from 12 to 1 on 7/6, vs. 2.069 the prior day. Of course it does vary by hour, in a 6 hour span I see a high of 2.8 difference and a low of 1.4. And the AC was running that day, it was an expensive cooling day...

I can also see natural gas usage data, but just by day.

My mother can pull water usage by hour, with graphs and everything. I used it years ago to show her how she had a water leak, and how her landscape water equaled an near-Olympic-sized pool per week... She changed nothing.

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