Is there a future for the Mach-E?

[Krabbit]

Trained and certified (community college) mechanics are offered more than $100K upon graduation in our area. I understand that a dealership does not want to pay to have them read and understand that 500 page consumer book. Then explain this all to customers. But high schools are filled with kids who enjoy mastering consumer electronics - mostly iPhones. Give them a deal on leasing used MMEs and pay them $25 an hour to master that book and tutor new owners. First 2-3 hours included with the sale of every MME. I suggest to our local dealership that I will not recommend them, nor buy another car from them if they do not have someone available to explain how to make the car do what it is suppose to do. Response, Oh, that is interesting. We will let you know if we should do that.

I suggested the same thing to my selling dealership. (Well similar anyways) "How can you sell these if you dont have anyone here with any knowledge of them?"

Sponsored

 

[AZBill]

Well, they have improved the charging speed by 25% starting in 2024, they also majority improved efficiency staring with the 2024, 2025 had improvements in blue cruise and 5g modem. They also say they have improved the raise in 2025.

Just to name a few

The original Bolt ended production in 2023. The new 2026 is a redesign with Ultium LFP batteries and brand new Hardware/software platform. The new Bolt will charge at 150kw, compared to the old Bolt at 55kw. And the software int he new Bolt is way better than what Ford has in the Mach E.

 

[RickMachE]

One of my friends (yeah I only have one ) is a retired exec from GM. His brother is a heart surgeon. He said, "my brother knows when he opens you up exactly where your heart is and despite changing tech, can get to work with high success. At GM, every day the "heart"changes location, while legal, financial and tech changes make it mind boggling to operate the business."
He also said the only given now is that EV prices have to drop in order to get more American butts in the seats. That's where he said Ford and GM really screwed up. He acknowledged that dealerships mostly hate EV's since they can't sell you tranny flushes, fuel injector services, cooling system parts and such. As RickMachE points out:
9) Dealers never got behind them. Some intentionally tried to kill them.

Here's my point #10 Rick
I believe the gas and oil weasels are keeping gas pricing low enough that the math simply doesn't work for those wanting an EV but having to charge outside their residence. Keeping gas prices low also makes inflation figures look better. Which ....aw hell ....I won't go there .....

In addition, people are stupid.

When gas went over $4 a gallon in the summer of 2007, people in droves sold their trucks and bought gas efficient cars. How many of them knew MATH, how to calculate a BREAKEVEN? They focus on car payment and price of gas. That's it. Stupid, stupid decisions.

I had a Ford Explorer that got like 16mpg in warm weather, 13.5 in winter. I did the math of slowing down on my 20 mile drive from 75 to 65. Instead of 16 minutes, it now took me 18.5 minutes. As I recall, I gained like 1.5 miles to the gallon. With a gallon of gas costing say $4.25, how much did I save by giving up 2.5 minutes each way?

20 miles / 16mpg = 1.25 gallons x $4.25 x 2 for roundtrip = $10.63
20 miles / 17.5mpg = 1.14 gallons x $4.25 x 2 = $9.69

So I saved around $1 per day x 5 days a week = $5 at the cost of 25 minutes a week. I was also arriving at work at around 7:30AM, long before anyone else, so if I arrived at 7:33 no one even knew.

I saved money and didn't go and make a stupid decision.

Of course when gas dropped they went and traded the efficient car for a truck...

 

[Budmen]

They may succeed in profitable, but they’ll never be able to go toe to toe with BYD and gang unless going toe to toe means continuing the ban on Chinese EVs. Ford lacks the commitment to do what is necessary.

It's an entirely different climate for manufacturing in China as well. Hard for American manufacturers to compete.

 

[tuminatr]

The original Bolt ended production in 2023. The new 2026 is a redesign with Ultium LFP batteries and brand new Hardware/software platform. The new Bolt will charge at 150kw, compared to the old Bolt at 55kw. And the software int he new Bolt is way better than what Ford has in the Mach E.

Ford introduced LFP batteries in the 2024 model year. You should google the changes / improvement in the 2024 model year

 

[SonicBlue]

I'm sorry. So Ford's current decisions are good, but the same CEO that made those past decisions made bad ones?

Ford decided to eliminate very popular vehicles like the Fusion, Escape, Fiesta... Customers and Dealerships are still scratching their heads. What do people buy RIGHT NOW if they want a CAR from Ford? Answer - the Mach-E. Problem is that a huge percentage of the population don't understand / don't want to understand / believe all the lies about EVs and won't buy.

We had been going to 6 or so EV events a year. The crowds vary depending on where you are as to EV knowledge. Many of the questions are mind numbingly lacking common sense. I'm not saying these people are stupid, but... Some COMMON statements / questions we got - "I'm afraid the car will blow up / catch fire and burn my house down", "can you charge it / drive it in the rain?", and more. Sometimes our answer is "EVs aren't for everyone when we realize that some simply aren't smart enough to drive one, much less drive anything".

The main reasons that EVs are less successful than they should have been are easy to list, hard to prioritize:

1) The success of one brand at the beginning was driven by a highly divisive individual that many don't understand / don't like, producing vehicles that were expensive but with no track record. As the track record grew, so did the divisiveness.

2) Most people won't buy from a startup.

3) Prices were too high on new introductions, supply was constrained, markups made the national press, and every issue (look, one caught fire) was on the news.

4) There was / is a concerted effort by parties to kill EVs / tamp down demand.

5) Inadequate charging infrastructure made headlines. Adequate charging infrastructure doesn't make headlines.

6) People are lemmings. If they're told something that is patently false, many believe it and repeat it. You can't convince them of anything else.

7) People buy vehicles emotionally, not logically. Many buy on payment, which kills EVs. Many don't do any research, then discover they're a poor fit for an EV.

8) Automakers launched incentives to convert prospects to buyers, like a "free charger and installation" that often turned out to not be free due to the fine print.

9) Dealers never got behind them. Some intentionally tried to kill them.

I could go on.

I'm now researching what I might want to buy in early 2027 to replace the Mach-E. Right now the upcoming Rivian R2 looks interesting. In less than 5 minutes, I found that Rivian announced recently that a new navigational feature (details are irrelevant for this discussion) will be available in late 2026 for the R2, and all the R2s bought prior CANNOT BE UPGRADED. Sort of like announcing a $40,000 pickup and then not making any near that price, like Ford. Load gun, aim at foot, FIRE.

We have to realize that this forum is a very tiny microcosm of EV owners that are overall smarter (I said overall, so don't get carried away) and more informed than most, and were the early adopters. This forum also has a few contributors, like Lee, Mike G, and others that have provided invaluable information and insights into these vehicles that has clearly resulted in someone like me having much more owner satisfaction due to my awareness. Countless times I have had discussions with my dealership's service dept or owner about something that I knew more than they did because of this forum. Go to the Lightning forum, and that knowledge is basically not there anywhere near as much, and a higher percentage of the members are much less informed. Now, think of the general public that doesn't know what a forum is.

If one goes on Facebook for ANY EV BRAND, you find discussions that are mind numbing. "My TPMS shows 30psi on all 4 tires, why is that?" Most of the answers are "it's cold out". Few are "because you have been neglecting your tires for months and losing pressure as tires do regardless of season and now the cold is finally tripping your 25% low alert", and other things that make you wonder how mankind has survived this long.

Anyone wondering if Ford has lost customers from this should read the comments from specific people posted here and on the Lightning forum. I got a chuckle out of the "President" of the "Lightning Clubs of America" resigning 24 hours after the announcement "due to family and business reasons". Ok, sure. In reality, the Koolaid no longer tastes good.

Anyway, morning diatribe has ended.

I’ll respond to this because it seems to be the most comprehensive list of grievances so far, but my response will not always directly pertain to the points you raised. You may not even even disagree with some of what I’ve got to say…

This board is indeed a small sample of mostly EV enthusiasts. Generally speaking (which is a good rule of thumb for all of my opinions below) EV enthusiasts are left-leaning and rather dogmatically concerned about “climate change.” Of course, a number of others and myself are exceptions.

But I think this is why so many contributors are so upset over Ford’s retreat. Rather than viewing this as a business decision, and despite the fact that this decision won’t hurt any current owners in the slightest, it seems to be viewed as a betrayal of “the cause.” As someone who never subscribed the cause, I’m not encumbered by this.

This ideology also leads to the (in my opinion) rather humorous and conflicted dislike for Elon Musk. No other single person on the planet played a bigger role in bringing EVs to the masses, but he shifted right on a number of issues, including free speech and eliminating government waste, and progressivism simply cannot tolerate an apostate.

The irrational Musk hatred does not explain EVs failing to take off. If anything, it should have helped as conservatives became more receptive to him - opening another market - and disaffected progressives switched to other brands.

it’s true that most people won’t buy an expensive product from a startup. Probably with good reason (cough Fisker).

Prices are indeed too high. And that was one of two major impediments to broader adoption. The other impediment was the inconvenience. You know where I stand on this. The sacrifices and inconveniences of DCFC on road trips are real, even where there is “adequate” infrastructure. Progressives and most EV enthusiasts (let’s refer to this cohort as PEVs for the remainder) have trouble seeing this because of their “people who don’t share my priorities are stupid” and “take your medicine” blinders.

At the heart of it, PEVs have scarcity and collectivist mindsets. So they are naturally drawn to the tradeoffs imposed by EVs. These tradeoffs are not as appealing to people with abundance and individualist mindsets.

Yes, the media (largely left-leaning, btw) cast a spotlight on these tradeoffs. But that doesn’t mean the stories they covered (e.g. catastrophic DCFC outages and blockages during that Chicago deep freeze) weren’t true.

Who were these shadowy figures making a concerted effort to tamp down EV demand? I would agree that some dealerships hated them. Mostly because they were harder to sell. Also because it often required a hefty initial buy-in. Also because they feared less long-term maintenance. There were also the politicians who thought billions in subsidies for “green energy boondoggles” was a waste of money. I agree with them. As a fiscal conservative deeply worried about running annual $2 trillion+ deficits, I think we waste money on a LOT of things. That didn’t make the politicians anti-EV. Just anti-subsidy.

The same goes for the idiotic DCFC subsidy under the “Inflation Reduction Act” (LOL LOL LOL). Even PEVs must admit that this was egregiously mishandled. A total dumpster fire.

Adequate / inadequate infrastructure - I already discussed that above.

People are lemmings, emotional, etc. - I already discussed that above. Also pretty ironic considering some of the emotional responses from the PEVs witnessed on this board.

The conspiracy to keep gas prices low to hurt EV adoption. Whooo boy, that’s a new one LOL. Oil companies like higher prices. Trump is working domestically and internationally to reduce the cost of energy to try to combat inflation. That is done by maximizing production and supply. $2.50 gas is a blessing - not a conspiracy against EVs.

Well, I think that’s enough.

 

[tuminatr]

I’ll respond to this because it seems to be the most comprehensive list of grievances so far, but my response will not always directly pertain to the points you raised. You may not even even disagree with some of what I’ve got to say…

This board is indeed a small sample of mostly EV enthusiasts. Generally speaking (which is a good rule of thumb for all of my opinions below) EV enthusiasts are left-leaning and rather dogmatically concerned about “climate change.” Of course, a number of others and myself are exceptions.

But I think this is why so many contributors are so upset over Ford’s retreat. Rather than viewing this as a business decision, and despite the fact that this decision won’t hurt any current owners in the slightest, it seems to be viewed as a betrayal of “the cause.” As someone who never subscribed the cause, I’m not encumbered by this.

This ideology also leads to the (in my opinion) rather humorous and conflicted dislike for Elon Musk. No other single person on the planet played a bigger role in bringing EVs to the masses, but he shifted right on a number of issues, including free speech and eliminating government waste, and progressivism simply cannot tolerate an apostate.

The irrational Musk hatred does not explain EVs failing to take off. If anything, it should have helped as conservatives became more receptive to him - opening another market - and disaffected progressives switched to other brands.

it’s true that most people won’t buy an expensive product from a startup. Probably with good reason (cough Fisker).

Prices are indeed too high. And that was one of two major impediments to broader adoption. The other impediment was the inconvenience. You know where I stand on this. The sacrifices and inconveniences of DCFC on road trips are real, even where there is “adequate” infrastructure. Progressives and most EV enthusiasts (let’s refer to this cohort as PEVs for the remainder) have trouble seeing this because of their “people who don’t share my priorities are stupid” and “take your medicine” blinders.

At the heart of it, PEVs have scarcity and collectivist mindsets. So they are naturally drawn to the tradeoffs imposed by EVs. These tradeoffs are not as appealing to people with abundance and individualist mindsets.

Yes, the media (largely left-leaning, btw) cast a spotlight on these tradeoffs. But that doesn’t mean the stories they covered (e.g. catastrophic DCFC outages and blockages during that Chicago deep freeze) weren’t true.

Who were these shadowy figures making a concerted effort to tamp down EV demand? I would agree that some dealerships hated them. Mostly because they were harder to sell. Also because it often required a hefty initial buy-in. Also because they feared less long-term maintenance. There were also the politicians who thought billions in subsidies for “green energy boondoggles” was a waste of money. I agree with them. As a fiscal conservative deeply worried about running annual $2 trillion+ deficits, I think we waste money on a LOT of things. That didn’t make the politicians anti-EV. Just anti-subsidy.

The same goes for the idiotic DCFC subsidy under the “Inflation Reduction Act” (LOL LOL LOL). Even PEVs must admit that this was egregiously mishandled. A total dumpster fire.

Adequate / inadequate infrastructure - I already discussed that above.

People are lemmings, emotional, etc. - I already discussed that above. Also pretty ironic considering some of the emotional responses from the PEVs witnessed on this board.

The conspiracy to keep gas prices low to hurt EV adoption. Whooo boy, that’s a new one LOL. Oil companies like higher prices. Trump is working domestically and internationally to reduce the cost of energy to try to combat inflation. That is done by maximizing production and supply. $2.50 gas is a blessing - not a conspiracy against EVs.

Well, I think that’s enough.

Wow, but you are right what the public accepts is called an Overton window. Public opinion changes and the general public currently doesn't like EVs.

The general public will accept hybrids.

 

[SonicBlue]

Wow, but you are right what the public accepts is called an Overton window. Public opinion changes and the general public currently doesn't like EVs.

The general public will accept hybrids.

Right. And that’s what’s so funny about this whole thing. Eventually the lack of adoption all becomes moot as soon as the battery tech improves! The next big jump in battery tech eliminates the tradeoffs. It also eventually eliminates the price problem. At which point EV conquers ICE.

I’ll give you an analogy: remember CFL? The mandates that attempted to kill incandescent light bulbs for CFL? And people HATED it because CFL SUCKED. And then just a few years later LED took over and destroyed incandescent without a mandate because the tech was just BETTER without any of the tradeoffs.

For PEVs, all it requires is patience. But, and here I realize I’m wading into some controversy, I don’t think that good enough for the PEVs. Because part of the fun for the PEVs is making everybody else take their medicine. Everybody else is gonna install those CFLs and like it!

Don’t be that way. Be patient.

 

[Mustangor]

The Mach-E is an obsolete, unsupported product. The more time passes, the more irrelevant it is. Efficiency on highway is poor. Comfort is poor. Charging speed is ridiculous. After two years, the only positive things I can say about the Mach-E is the look and Android Auto support. And for this last one, I'm generous because the whole dash interface is utterly anemic. No wonder why you barely see a Mach-E on the road here.
Sorry guys, but there is no future for this car...

 

[dalola]

The Mach-E is an obsolete, unsupported product. The more time passes, the more irrelevant it is. Efficiency on highway is poor. Comfort is poor. Charging speed is ridiculous. After two years, the only positive things I can say about the Mach-E is the look and Android Auto support. And for this last one, I'm generous because the whole dash interface is utterly anemic. No wonder why you barely see a Mach-E on the road here.
Sorry guys, but there is no future for this car...

lol... if what you say is true, it shouldn't have a future! You should have bought a Renault.

 

[SonicBlue]

Off topic, but I will say that my girlfriend’s new, cheaper ICE Nissan Rogue has hands free highway driving (with eye sensor) with a better software interface than BC. I was shocked. And she says it’s free. I’m not sure that’s true.

Update: it’s called ProPilot Assist 2.1 and it is free for three years. After which maybe $300/yr. BC isn’t competitive with that. Check out a video.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Let’s not over glorify the Chinese, shall we?

Chinese cars are exceptional in three main areas: charge faster, are content rich, and are way cheaper. They are in no way more advanced than Teslas where it matters. Tesla still has a significant edge in body design (elaborate use of giga castings and other structural elements), battery energy density and thermal management, and software integration.

The Chinese vehicles would fare better with consumers because they will wow you with larger screens, better graphics, and cheaper prices. But they are not better automobiles.

The Chinese are akin to a wrestler and Tesla to a boxer. The wrestler is more flashy and shows better. But going into a fight against a boxer, he’ll have his ass knocked out before the end of round one.

If Ford’s skunkworks wanted to learn something interesting, they could have done so with a 1st gen Model Y back in 2019. They didn’t need to wait till 2025 to tear down a BYD. The BYD will be inferior from a tech and performance perspective to a Tesla.

 

[SonicBlue]

The Chinese are akin to a wrestler and Tesla to a boxer. The wrestler is more flashy and shows better. But going into a fight against a boxer, he’ll have his ass knocked out in before the end of round one.

Also off topic, but a comparably-sized wrestler would drop his head and take a boxer to the ground. Once off his feet, the boxer would be royally effed.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Also off topic, but a comparably-sized wrestler would drop his head and take a boxer to the ground. Once off his feet, the boxer would be royally effed.

Not out of bait yet?

 

[dalola]

Also off topic, but a comparably-sized wrestler would drop his head and take a boxer to the ground. Once off his feet, the boxer would be royally effed.

Not out of bait yet?

You guys are both in Chicago....I bet if you met up for coffee, you could actually be friends!

Sponsored