Jump starting sales

[voxel]

Mach-e and Lightning sales are down, but IMHO, people's interest is still there. So, what is it going to take to translate interest into sales. Lower prices? New battery technology, like solid state? Longer range? Or, will sales be in this valley until the second generation comes out in 2026?

Down? Ford's price cuts have worked to keep sales flat.

You want collapsing sales... look at Broncos that are stacking up on lots. One FL dealer has 100 Broncos on the lot (and 26 Bronco Raptors) and on FB one of the sales person mentioned these numbers he always gets laughed at because folks don't believe him and live in a fantasy world where Broncos are unicorns. Broncos are being discounted $5K+ now. Ford Video Guy is crying about it too. They are selling Broncos at invoice. Ford has major issues.

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[voxel]

EV sales have grown 46% YoY... but I'm sure that's less than Ford and GM had hoped. Still, the over reliance on high margin gas SUVs and trucks is coming to an end because they are now beginning to stack up on lots.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-conte...y-Blue-Book-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Report.pdf

 

[heisnuts]

For more widespread adoption there needs to be the following:

1) More DCFC chargers on rural interstates and highways
2) These chargers will need to be proven reliable and maintained
3) These charging locations need to be located at/near amenities like restaurants & hotels
4) Vehicle price has to be comparable to it's ICE counterpart
5) The manufactures have to solve the software/charging issues with their vehicles
6) Real world range has to be 300 miles or more
7) EDUCATION as to the basics on how EVs work to prevent the frustrations in cold weather driving

Right now, there really isn't an EV out there that has done everything on that list. Tesla is the only one I can think of who has come close.

Speaking from experience, things became a lot easier once I switched from the MME to the M3P 5 months ago. There are a lot more charging options on the road trips we take and I have never come into a station with chargers out of service or not working on the first try. We usually plan stops around meals so the car is charging while we eat at a restaurant at/near the charging location.

Software updates come very regularly, and I have been impressed on how much Tesla is able to update/upgrade OTA. Almost every "recall" you hear about with Tesla is actually an OTA update that rolls out and is completed within a few weeks of it's announcement.

Looking at a Model Y long range right now priced around $42K (after rebates) does get it close to a comparable ICE counterpart. However, the education to the general public is still not there so a lot of the public still sees them as very inconvenient and more expensive vs ICE.

The funny part is in colder weather, I would argue for the average driver an EV is a better option. Starting off with a charged battery in the morning, the car can be preconditioned even if sitting inside a closed garage. Once at a local destination the climate system can be left on while parked or the car preconditioned before returning to a cold car. Since most daily trips are under 50 miles reduced range in the colder temps would not be an issue. I would say this works really well for local trips, however, for long road trips in subfreezing temps, I would still stick with an ICE vehicle to avoid the potential current frustrations with DCFC in those conditions.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

For more widespread adoption there needs to be the following:

1) More DCFC chargers on rural interstates and highways
2) These chargers will need to be proven reliable and maintained
3) These charging locations need to be located at/near amenities like restaurants & hotels
4) Vehicle price has to be comparable to it's ICE counterpart
5) The manufactures have to solve the software/charging issues with their vehicles
6) Real world range has to be 300 miles or more
7) EDUCATION as to the basics on how EVs work to prevent the frustrations in cold weather driving

Right now, there really isn't an EV out there that has done everything on that list. Tesla is the only one I can think of who has come close.

Speaking from experience, things became a lot easier once I switched from the MME to the M3P 5 months ago. There are a lot more charging options on the road trips we take and I have never come into a station with chargers out of service or not working on the first try. We usually plan stops around meals so the car is charging while we eat at a restaurant at/near the charging location.

Software updates come very regularly, and I have been impressed on how much Tesla is able to update/upgrade OTA. Almost every "recall" you hear about with Tesla is actually an OTA update that rolls out and is completed within a few weeks of it's announcement.

Looking at a Model Y long range right now priced around $42K (after rebates) does get it close to a comparable ICE counterpart. However, the education to the general public is still not there so a lot of the public still sees them as very inconvenient and more expensive vs ICE.

The funny part is in colder weather, I would argue for the average driver an EV is a better option. Starting off with a charged battery in the morning, the car can be preconditioned even if sitting inside a closed garage. Once at a local destination the climate system can be left on while parked or the car preconditioned before returning to a cold car. Since most daily trips are under 50 miles reduced range in the colder temps would not be an issue. I would say this works really well for local trips, however, for long road trips in subfreezing temps, I would still stick with an ICE vehicle to avoid the potential current frustrations with DCFC in those conditions.

Just stop it Tesla FanBoi. I will not be subjected to your logical arguments.

 

[Deleted User 981389]

Improve the resale value and I'd consider buying another EV. As it sits today I'd only consider a PHEV or an ICE.

Other than incentives not sure what could help.

Yes I know it's NOT an investment
Yes I know all cars depreciate
Yes I'm still butt hurt by the 25K valuation on my GTPE

 

[Mach1E]

Improve the resale value and I'd consider buying another EV. As it sits today I'd only consider a PHEV or an ICE.

Other than incentives not sure what could help.

Yes I know it's NOT an investment
Yes I know all cars depreciate
Yes I'm still butt hurt by the 25K valuation on my GTPE

If the resale value still stinks in the future, just buy your next one used.

Unless you have 100k miles on your car it’s worth more than 25k. The low ball offers don’t mean anything.

This too is temporary.

The ridiculously high resale of the previous years were caused by short supply.

The ridiculously low resale now is caused by over supply.

The market always levels out.

 

[EdLover]

I’m guessing higher prices at the pimps

We would feel that in the pants no doubt.

 

[dpnelson]

There are both macro issues as well as Ford-specific issues making the Mach-E and Lightning less attractive to buyers.

Macro issues:
1) CCS charging infrastructure isn't mature. There are large areas of the country where there just isn't good coverage for fast charging on road trips. Stations are far apart, and regularly have 4 or fewer chargers. Many stations have broken or degraded chargers. This will be much less of a concern if the NACS adapters work reliably once they come out. Tesla's supercharger network is bigger and more reliable. This will also gradually improve over time as more and more charging stations come online.
2) CCS is a failed standard. Everyone is moving to NACS. It's a risky move to buy a car with a port that is going out of production if there isn't a functional adapter to the new standard. If the adapters work, well this is less of a negative.
3) High interest rates make the cost/benefit of EVs a tougher sell. One of the tradeoffs of EVs right now is that you pay more up-front, but you save on fuel/charging and maintenance. That's a harder tradeoff if the extra money paid up-front is financed at 7% instead of 2%.
4) Cold weather issues are at the front of people's mings right now. The recent situation in Chigaco was sensationalized at least somewhat, but there were systemic failures that had very real impacts. Better education about preconditioning, only charging to 80%, etc... would have definitely helped, but the fact that drivers new to EVs aren't immediately experts on optimizing there use is an issue the industry needs to address.

Ford-specific issues:
1) The publicity of all of the Mach-E's having a major recall to replace the HVJB can't be good for sales.
2) It's 2024. Why are the newest models available 2023s? A lot of people want the bigger number on the model year when buying a new car. They assume bigger numbers are better, which in this case is probably true since....
3) There are known improvements coming soon. We know from various interviews and press releases that the 2024 Mach-E is getting a new rear motor, new headlights, and faster charge times. The Lightning is getting a heat pump. Pretty much every time any EV has received a powertrain update or a heat pump, efficiency (range) has been improved, sometimes by a lot.

 

[Ruben Anthony]

Lower price and easier to charge. In my opinion.

If I didn’t have a house, I probably wouldn’t own an EV.

I do own my own house and installed a Level 2 charger. But electricity rates as well as misleading "special EV rates" from my electricity provider (the only one) PG&E have gone up so high, I went back to a gasoline powered vehicle after my buyback was approved.

The special EV rate was advertised as $0.27 cents per kwh during off peak hours. But what PG&E omitted was the additional "delivery charge" of approximately $0.08 cents per kwh, making the real price $0.35 cents per kwh.

An increase this year makes it $0.45 cents per kwh during off peak hours, and PG&E is asking the state utilities commission for permission for another rate hike.

I was going to replace my Mach-E with an Ioniq 6, but instead went with a 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited. 51 mpg makes it cheaper to drive than a Mach-E, at least in California.

 

[LincolnLuvr]

Say goodbye to used Mach-E prices. Expect further devaluation as dealers are now allowed to rent out 2023s.

https://www.autoblog.com/2024/01/29/ford-wants-dealers-to-rent-out-mustang-mach-es/

 

[AliRafiee]

The special EV rate was advertised as $0.27 cents per kwh during off peak hours. But what PG&E omitted was the additional "delivery charge" of approximately $0.08 cents per kwh, making the real price $0.35 cents per kwh.

An increase this year makes it $0.45 cents per kwh during off peak hours, and PG&E is asking the state utilities commission for permission for another rate hike.

I was going to replace my Mach-E with an Ioniq 6, but instead went with a 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited. 51 mpg makes it cheaper to drive than a Mach-E, at least in California.

WOW. That’s expensive. I should count my blessings that I only pay $0.1 per KwH.

 

[dbsb3233]

Mach-e and Lightning sales are down, but IMHO, people's interest is still there. So, what is it going to take to translate interest into sales. Lower prices? New battery technology, like solid state? Longer range? Or, will sales be in this valley until the second generation comes out in 2026?

#1 would be lower prices, which takes lower costs, which takes much cheaper batteries since that's the biggie.

Some of that should come after Ford opens their domestic battery plants in the next couple of years. But cheaper battery chemistry/tech is what is will take to wipe out the EV cost premium.

 

[Mach1E]

Say goodbye to used Mach-E prices. Expect further devaluation as dealers are now allowed to rent out 2023s.

https://www.autoblog.com/2024/01/29/ford-wants-dealers-to-rent-out-mustang-mach-es/

And the article headline right below this one:

“Hertz's Tesla liquidation sale likely means more depreciation for used EVs”

 

[Mach-E GT PE Jim]

actually I am in favor of raising DCFC rates. As a matter of policy we should discourage people from using DCFC instead of L2 at home. If you don't have a place to charge at home or work, please don't buy an EV...yet.

I have to agree. I only use DCFC when traveling- but when I have gone to EA chargers I have to wait for the ID4’s who get free charging for 3 years because of the lawsuit. There must be a better way to compensate the owners than free charging.

 

[johnmark]

Mach-e and Lightning sales are down, but IMHO, people's interest is still there. So, what is it going to take to translate interest into sales. Lower prices? New battery technology, like solid state? Longer range? Or, will sales be in this valley until the second generation comes out in 2026?

Yes.

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