eager2own

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If your goal is to not burn gas, then don't buy a PHEV.
It doesn't have to be an absolute. My wife wanted to "not burn gas" but she also wasn't comfortable having our primary family long-haul vehicle be a BEV. We didn't feel the infrastructure was in place for it plus she was worried about depending on a BEV if having to evacuate the SC coast for a hurricane, which has been known to take 16 hours in traffic.
Therefore, we went with a PHEV. Admittedly her XC-90 doesn't have great electric-only range, but for the type of in-town driving she does between charges, it probably covers 80%.
So you can "want to not burn gas" and get a PHEV if you still don't want to fully jump into the BEV world.

(By the way, I got my Panamera as a PHEV because it was a better sell to the wife, who likes the PHEV part, but also gives me an extra 100 hp of immediate electric low end torque, which make it a blast.)
 

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It doesn't have to be an absolute. My wife wanted to "not burn gas" but she also wasn't comfortable having our primary family long-haul vehicle be a BEV. We didn't feel the infrastructure was in place for it plus she was worried about depending on a BEV if having to evacuate the SC coast for a hurricane, which has been known to take 16 hours in traffic.
Therefore, we went with a PHEV. Admittedly her XC-90 doesn't have great electric-only range, but for the type of in-town driving she does between charges, it probably covers 80%.
So you can "want to not burn gas" and get a PHEV if you still don't want to fully jump into the BEV world.

(By the way, I got my Panamera as a PHEV because it was a better sell to the wife, who likes the PHEV part, but also gives me an extra 100 hp of immediate electric low end torque, which make it a blast.)
My reply was mainly in response to him. Someone that feels like they need L3 charging in their PHEV seems like someone pretty close to the absolute end of the scale.

Yes, a PHEV is more in the middle (which is fitting since it's a hybrid). If someone doesn't care about not burning gas, they'll probably just keep buying ICE vehicles (as most do). A PHEV is designed to transition most miles to battery but not all. The average driver with a city/suburban daily commute can put most of their miles on battery with a 30-40 mile nightly charge. Infrequent longer drives use gas. It's not intended for people that want to put 100 miles/day on battery. That's what a BEV is for.
 

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It doesn't have to be an absolute. My wife wanted to "not burn gas" but she also wasn't comfortable having our primary family long-haul vehicle be a BEV. We didn't feel the infrastructure was in place for it plus she was worried about depending on a BEV if having to evacuate the SC coast for a hurricane, which has been known to take 16 hours in traffic.
Therefore, we went with a PHEV. Admittedly her XC-90 doesn't have great electric-only range, but for the type of in-town driving she does between charges, it probably covers 80%.
So you can "want to not burn gas" and get a PHEV if you still don't want to fully jump into the BEV world.

(By the way, I got my Panamera as a PHEV because it was a better sell to the wife, who likes the PHEV part, but also gives me an extra 100 hp of immediate electric low end torque, which make it a blast.)
Same here. Assuming the company my wife works for now survives, she drives less than 3 miles to work - allowing her daily routine to be driven purely on battery power. Slow L2 charging overnight is perfectly fine for a PHEV. Having a PHEV instead of 2 BEVs solves the issue of long distance driving convenience, although in the northeast/midatlantic there seems to be an adequate supply of DCFC. I really like the idea of lane keeping on the highway; it's not clear to me that the Copilot assist offered on the Escape PHEV is handsfree or not, so the mach E might be the "trip car" anyway.
 
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My sources are saying (as recently as this week) that the first US deliveries will start in mid-late November 2020. US ordering to start in the 4th week of June (week of the 22nd).
Let the countdown begin!! 🤞👍
Yes, indeed.
It's amazing, though, how many dealers seem to not have this information. I was on one of the Mach E Facebook groups and a member described a conversation with the dealer. The dealer had no idea about Reservation-to-Order conversions or the timing for that. I see a few options:
1) All dealers aren't getting the word
2) All dealers aren't reading their email
3) The left hand and right hand aren't communicating within some dealerships.

Whatever their combination was, this Forum seems to have the best intel on the latest status. That makes me thankful for this Forum but sad the network of Ford dealers isn't doing a better job. But I digress. That's another Forum thread!
 

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Yes, indeed.
It's amazing, though, how many dealers seem to not have this information. I was on one of the Mach E Facebook groups and a member described a conversation with the dealer. The dealer had no idea about Reservation-to-Order conversions or the timing for that. I see a few options:
1) All dealers aren't getting the word
2) All dealers aren't reading their email
3) The left hand and right hand aren't communicating within some dealerships.

Whatever their combination was, this Forum seems to have the best intel on the latest status. That makes me thankful for this Forum but sad the network of Ford dealers isn't doing a better job. But I digress. That's another Forum thread!
I also think the 80/20 rule (or 98/2) comes into play. EV's are a tiny fraction of sales, and so the vast majority of dealership employees simply don't care. They want to know when the new F-150 and Bronco are coming, and could care a less about the MME. We don't know the actual split between Europe and the US, but assuming the US is getting 20K then on average one of the 2000 EV-certified dealerships will sell 10. When you consider that the West coast accounts for 25% of the 20K, the average dealer in the rest of the country will sell less than one a month until the 2022's come out.
 

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EV's are a tiny fraction of sales, and so the vast majority of dealership employees simply don't care.
And it's not just that it's a small fraction of sales. The real reason dealers don't want to push BEVs is that they are disruptive to their main profit center -- the service centers. Dealers make more from vehicle service than the initial vehicle sale. BEVs are disruptive of that business model and won't be a priority for dealers unless the business model is revampted -- as Tesla has done.
 

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And it's not just that it's a small fraction of sales. The real reason dealers don't want to push BEVs is that they are disruptive to their main profit center
Not really if you go by Tesla. Tesla service centers are booked out for weeks. All the cars coming off of warranty and that large amount of service work is starting to pay off. Charging and Service revenue went from $100M revenue to $700M in 2019. Tesla fixes most everything but as cars run out of warranty the customer starts paying. Was getting warranty on year old model 3 and a guy with an older X. In for a Pay-for-it repair to the gull wings, loved the car and was willing to keep paying to keep it working.

I think EV's will provide plenty of service work to dealers.
 
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eager2own

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Not really if you go by Tesla. Tesla service centers are book out for weeks. All the cars coming off of warranty and that large amount of service work is starting to pay off. Charging and Service revenue went from $100M revenue to $700M in 2019. Tesla fixes most everything but as cars run out of warranty the customer starts paying. Was getting warranty on year old model 3 and a guy with an older X. In for a Pay-for-it repair to the gull wings, loved the car and was willing to keep paying to keep it working.

I think EV's will provide plenty of service work to dealers.
Studies have found BEV service requirements to be half of traditional ICE vehicles. Much has been written about the disruption to the dealership/service center business model -- it's not just my speculation or assumption.
 

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A few posts from the Ford Motor Company Cuautitlan Stamping and Assembly Plant (CSAP) Facebook page this morning...

4 hrs · Cuautitlán Izcalli, Mexico ·

Back to work!!!


4 hrs · Cuautitlán Izcalli, Mexico ·
Our control people gradually begin to reintegrate into activities to continue supporting the project!
Carrying out hygiene and safety measures we start working!
👷‍♂️ 💻 !
 

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Studies have found BEV service requirements to be half of traditional ICE vehicles
Is that like Fox News "people are saying". Can tell you Tesla service centers are packed and someone is paying and it will be owner sooner or later and Tesla's huge jump in service revenue proves it.
 

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Is that like Fox News "people are saying". Can tell you Tesla service centers are packed and someone is paying and it will be owner sooner or later and Tesla's huge jump in service revenue proves it.
Just did a quick Google search and one of the first articles to pop up is this McKinsey report saying exactly that (including the estimate of half service spending in maintenance for BEVs).
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...owrooms-proactive-dealers-can-benefit-greatly

You can find more, if not hundreds, that claim one of the advantages of BEVs is lesser maintenance costs.
Nobody is saying that there won't be any service required, so it's no surprise Tesla revenue service has increased as the fleet increases. However, if the service revenue is half for BEVs sold compared to ICEs... it's easy to see where the dealers' focus will be.

And, at the end of the day, what matters is what dealers think. Even if 2030 rolls along and predictors are wrong and you're right that BEVs don't equal maintenance savings, that's irrelevant. What matters to my point is that today dealers think they will lose money in future service by selling BEVs over ICEs.
 

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ust did a quick Google search and one of the first articles to pop up is this McKinsey report saying exactly that (including the estimate of half service spending in maintenance for BEVs).
That's kind of a sales promo by McKinsey with no real stats involved, hire them and they'll guide you through a scary transition for which they have no real data. When you see anyone tossing out the now old chestnut of "market disruption" turn on the skeptical blue light.

EV's are early on so likely are no real stats other than Tesla's and Tesla releases no info but you do see real effects with Tesla with two week's for service and a $600M jump in service revenue. The service will be more on electronics than oil changes but that works to dealers advantage, way cleaner and they are the sole source. Mine were camera, seat harness, some kind of control gizmo, sensor not working. That's first year and I'll be out of warranty by June, 14 months.

Ford advertises just $500 in service work for first five years but that has not been Tesla's experience. Tesla makes the same claim.
 

eager2own

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That's kind of a sales promo by McKinsey with no real stats involved, hire them and they'll guide you through a scary transition for which they have no real data. When you see anyone tossing out the now old chestnut of "market disruption" turn on the skeptical blue light.

EV's are early on so likely are no real stats other than Tesla's and Tesla releases no info but you do see real effects with Tesla with two week's for service and a $600M jump in service revenue. The service will be more on electronics than oil changes but that works to dealers advantage, way cleaner and they are the sole source. Mine were camera, seat harness, some kind of control gizmo, sensor not working. That's first year and I'll be out of warranty by June, 14 months.

Ford advertises just $500 in service work for first five years but that has not been Tesla's experience. Tesla makes the same claim.
That's just the first article that popped up. Much has been written about maintenance savings from BEVs. Hell, you don't have to even look beyond the Mach-E page, which claims that the car will have 35% less maintenance than the ICE Escape. To us, that's good news. To a dealer, that's 35% less revenue.
 
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That's kind of a sales promo by McKinsey with no real stats involved, hire them and they'll guide you through a scary transition for which they have no real data. When you see anyone tossing out the now old chestnut of "market disruption" turn on the skeptical blue light.

EV's are early on so likely are no real stats other than Tesla's and Tesla releases no info but you do see real effects with Tesla with two week's for service and a $600M jump in service revenue. The service will be more on electronics than oil changes but that works to dealers advantage, way cleaner and they are the sole source. Mine were camera, seat harness, some kind of control gizmo, sensor not working. That's first year and I'll be out of warranty by June, 14 months.

Ford advertises just $500 in service work for first five years but that has not been Tesla's experience. Tesla makes the same claim.
Two years in on our Leaf and the only work other than routine maintenance we’ve paid for was for a tire repair.
 
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