Mach-E Hands-Free Active Drive Assist PRICING Announced, OTA Update Available in Q3 2021

[DBC]

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension. This doesn't say FSD isn't safe, it says that because the name FSD is misleading that could lead to a dangerous situation. I will agree with that 100%. The name should NOT be "Full Self Driving."
...
If you are going to reference a report, you really should read the report first. That's what smart people do. In fact, CR rated Tesla's autopilot 9/10 in " Capabilities and Performance," the highest rating in the test. In "Ease of use" Tesla scored 7/10, again the highest rating in the report. Tesla lost points because it can be engaged anywhere, CR didn't like that. Tesla also lost points for recognizing an "Unresponsive driver" since they don't use eye tracking.

All you're saying is that Tesla's FSD isn't very useful if used safely and as required by the manual (but not required by the vehicle -- first huge fail). More specifically, you need to have your hands on the wheel, your eyes on the road, supervising the system at all times and prepared to take control in an instant without being prompted to do so. In short, it's more effort than simply doing it yourself.

Since you want to rely on Consumer Reports, here is the conclusion drawn by Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.

“Not only that [the inability to rely on the features], in our evaluations we determined that several of the features don’t provide much in the way of real benefits to customers, despite the extremely high purchase price.”

To put it in terms you can understand, the turn of phrase "don't provide much in the way of real benefits to customers, despite the extremely high purchase price" is polite longhand for "FSD is an overpriced and overhyped POS". ?

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[SnBGC]

Haven't followed this thread because I could care less about what Tesla does or doesnt do. But I do have a question related to the thread title if anyone is able to help me out....

My car will come with the hardware for hands free driving assistance but I wasnt planning on buying the service when it is released next year. Mainly because I dont feel like I would use it that much and believed the price was about $1400 or so. Now it looks like the price is much less....around $500 if we pre-pay when we take delivery of the vehicle?

Is that correct? Prepay for the service and get it when it is available late next year?

 

[DBC]

This opinion is derived from almost 40 years of professional aviation experience and studying countless accident reports.

Really? 40 years of studying "countless accident reports"? I called you out before about a fabricated conversation with an insurance agent where you claimed that insurance premiums for Tesla were lower than for other cars because of FSD. Not only was it highly unlikely that an agent would know about the details of the underwriting -- they never do -- but from an actual insurance agent we have learned that insurance premiums for Teslas are not lower than for other cars. To be specific, we have this report from someone clearly speaking from experience:

"I am an insurance agent in SoCal. I have very high limits. The cost per month over my 2017 Fusion SPORT AWD is $9.00 per month more. If it were a Tesla 3 series it would likely be in the $100 plus more per month. One of my clients just bought an X series Tesla and their payments are $250 per month."

Your recounting of the "agent phone call" was clearly fabricated. This claim seems like more fabrication and exaggeration. Feel free to do your thing and call be stupid. Just understand that even stupid people can spot a phony.

 

[DBC]

Now it looks like the price is much less....around $500 if we pre-pay when we take delivery of the vehicle?

Is that correct? Prepay for the service and get it when it is available late next year?

My understanding is that you pay once the features are released and you get the functionality via an OTA upgrade.

That's what I assume is meant by "hardware now add software later". Plus, unlike other accessories or add-ons, there isn't any way to add the software package to the purchase package. Plus if you paid and Ford didn't deliver or didn't deliver on schedule then Ford would have the headache of refunds or rebates or whatever.

If you drive on roads on which hands free driving is offered, I encourage you to look at the reviews of SuperCruise to get a better idea whether you would find it useful. I think it's great for long trips or freeway commutes, basically trips where adaptive cruise would be useful.

 

[SnBGC]

My understanding is that you pay once the features are released and you get the functionality via an OTA upgrade.

That's what I assume is meant by "hardware now add software later". Plus, unlike other accessories or add-ons, there isn't any way to add the software package to the purchase package. Plus if you paid and Ford didn't deliver or didn't deliver on schedule then Ford would have the headache of refunds or rebates or whatever.

If you drive on roads on which hands free driving is offered, I encourage you to look at the reviews of SuperCruise to get a better idea whether you would find it useful. I think it's great for long trips or freeway commutes, basically trips where adaptive cruise would be useful.

Okay thanks. If I dont have to decide now then I will just wait until the time comes. That is a year down the road. A lot can change between now and then for me.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Now it looks like the price is much less....around $500 if we pre-pay when we take delivery of the vehicle?

Is that correct? Prepay for the service and get it when it is available late next year?

My understanding is that you pay once the features are released and you get the functionality via an OTA upgrade.

This is how I'm interpreting the news, also.

Further, if I'm understanding correctly, the cost for the 3-year Active Drive Assist subscription will be $600, not $500.

Some are interpreting it as $500 but in reality, anyone who accepts the $100 sales incentive at time of vehicle purchase is just taking a $100 discount on the vehicle in exchange for less time-of-use of the hands free driving capability, since it isn't ready yet. It's not a commitment for the customer to later buy the feature. It's just a new car sales incentive.

 

[Woeo]

Haven't followed this thread because I could care less about what Tesla does or doesnt do. But I do have a question related to the thread title if anyone is able to help me out....

My car will come with the hardware for hands free driving assistance but I wasnt planning on buying the service when it is released next year. Mainly because I dont feel like I would use it that much and believed the price was about $1400 or so. Now it looks like the price is much less....around $500 if we pre-pay when we take delivery of the vehicle?

Is that correct? Prepay for the service and get it when it is available late next year?

Okay thanks. If I dont have to decide now then I will just wait until the time comes. That is a year down the road. A lot can change between now and then for me.

My quick read makes me believe you will get a credit of $100 applied to the negotiated car price at the time of purchase in exchange for signing a document acknowledging the equipment installed on the car will not function without purchase of the software at some point in the future, estimated to be 3rd quarter 2021.

 

[ChasingCoral]

This is how I'm interpreting the news, also.

Further, if I'm understanding correctly, the cost for the 3-year Active Drive Assist subscription will be $600, not $500.

Some are interpreting it as $500 but in reality, anyone who accepts the $100 sales incentive at time of vehicle purchase is just taking a $100 discount on the vehicle in exchange for less time-of-use of the hands free driving capability, since it isn't ready yet. It's not a commitment for the customer to later buy the feature. It's just a new car sales incentive.

Interesting perspective.

 

[jhalkias]

Quite frankly, I am pretty stunned that Tesla can release this FSD software without any regulation. Basically inexperienced people are out there perfecting software that if it doesn’t function correctly and the driver isn’t alert could cause a fatality. This Youtube podcast can give you a pretty good idea about it.

don’t get me wrong, I think the development is pretty amazing. However, beta testing around innocent people with totally untrained individuals is irresponsible.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Maybe, except EuroNCAP did find that the run of the mill CoPilot 360 outscored Tesla's AutoPilot.

In the states, IIHS likewise rated the standard CoPilot 360 higher than AutoPilot.

In the IIHS test, CoPilot 360 detected a crossing child and was able to stop completely from 12 mph whereas the Tesla only slowed from 12 to 7 mph. At 25mph, CoPilot 360 slowed from 25 mph to 3 mph, and AutoPilot only slowed from 25mph to 20mph.

And finally, Consumer Reports rated SuperCruise higher than AutoPilot for the second year in a row.

And yet again we are going with CoPilot 360 2.0 so it should be better

 

[SnBGC]

My quick read makes me believe you will get a credit of $100 applied to the negotiated car price at the time of purchase in exchange for signing a document acknowledging the equipment installed on the car will not function without purchase of the software at some point in the future, estimated to be 3rd quarter 2021.

Thanks. That makes much more sense to me. Yeah, I will sign that thing. Seemed clear to me from the beginning but I can understand why Ford would prefer to have a signed release of liability to be safe.

 

[pb3]

 

[Nak]

AutoPilot of course is not an autopilot. AutoPilot is ACC + Lane Keeping. It is an "assistance" system.

That's pretty much what an autopilot is. In fact, it's somewhat more capable than an autopilot. An autopilot won't swerve to avoid a midair collision or a thunderstorm. An autopilot maintains heading, and it maintains an altitude, a climb or descent. Autopilots can be controlled directly by the pilot, or it can be controlled by the FMS--Flight Management System. So yeah, It's an autopilot. It doesn't have any control over altitude obviously.

Why would a driver want a safety feature like Lane Keeping assistance to disengage without the driver's 'approval'? It should be easily overridden when needed and then return to a stable state without requiring the driver to reengage it.

There is a reason every airliner in current service is equipped with an autopilot that will disconnect immediately if the pilot makes a control input. Many if not most aircraft design features as well as pilot procedures are the result of something learned in an accident investigation. One of the biggest things we learn as professional pilots is to always know "Who is flying the airplane?" And it's corollary: What is the status and mode of the autopilot?" "Collaborative driving" sets up a situation where the risk of the driver wrongly assuming the autopilot is engaged is increased. Again, there is a reason the aviation industry does not allow "Collaborative flying." I think it's fairly obvious that the aviation industry has many thousands of times the experience that the auto industry has with automated control systems. The auto industry should perhaps follow the lead of the recognized leaders in this field.

I don't doubt that the Europeans place high value on collaborative driving. That doesn't make it right or safe.

BTW, I disagree with how Tesla warns you when the autopilot is disconnected because of driver control input. It's a rather weak warning in that case. I think that sets up a dangerous situation, especially given that driver attention is monitored by steering wheel interaction. Nudge the steering wheel, to let George know you're there, just a bit too hard and the autopilot disconnects with a rather mild warning. IMHO, it should obnoxiously warn you that the autopilot has disconnected unless you use the disconnect switch. (Right stalk up.) This is also how it works in an airliner.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Someone earlier posted this Forbes article comparing Ford and Tesla ADAS systems:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brooke...e-drive-assist-quick-compare/?sh=76d1cdf7034c

If you haven't watched the video at the bottom of the article, I encourage you to do so. They are testing the new Tesla FSD Beta on site streets.


That system would scare the crap out of me. You'll see how many times the system would have hit parked vehicles if it weren't for intervention. It also takes some turns like a "Wild Mouse" rollercoaster. No thank you!

 

[Badger_Prof]

No one should expect the Ford self Drive to be better than Tesla’s. They have been developing it for some years with massive number of iterations.

And Chrysler has been making cars longer than Toyota with a massive number of iterations so Chryslers must be better than Toyotas. Right?

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