DevSecOps
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Todd
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2021
- Threads
- 69
- Messages
- 4,764
- Reaction score
- 11,624
- Location
- Sacramento, CA
- Vehicles
- '21 Audi SQ5 / '23 Rivian R1T / '23 M3P
- Occupation
- CISO
- Thread starter
- #1
Preface:
Apparently there's a few people who don't understand the various limits placed on GT/GTPE trims. This thread will hopefully explain those in a easy to understand way. It's possible that these limitations also apply to non-GT models however, since they don't have the same display it's hard to say if they all apply equally.
Dispelling myths:
There are a few members here who believe they "know" why certain limits are applied to the car. The truth, and fact of the matter, is that they are just guessing. Ford has not confirmed any of these limits other than the 5 second limit. So, while the underlying reason behind the limits could technically be correct there's no quantifiable evidence to support their theories. This thread is based on quantifiable evidence, not imaginary dreams. Yes, you read that correctly, Ford HAS confirmed the 5 second limit here and per InsideEV, Ford confirmed this to them here:
Help Contribute:
I don't live in a cold climate and I don't have all the data to build out this post in it's entirety. I hope that the community can help put together the missing pieces. Again however, please prove your assertions instead of guessing. If it's a guess I might not include it unless I'm confident that it's correct. I will also attribute the limitations claimed to those members by name. This list has to be an effort of all members because of the diverse climates and situations that we all live in.
What is a performance limiter?
These are the grey bars that appear on the power indicator of the GT/GTPE trims. As the car limits power the power indicator is first left with a blank spot that is back filled with bars. These bars are sometimes referred to as jail bars. The bars are very small and hard to count unless you look very closely. It's important to note that these bars are cumulative. In other words, multiple limiting factors can contribute to the bars. One factor doesn't replace the other, instead they stack and the line of bars grows, further limiting power.
Why does Ford limit power?
Simply put, we don't know. Again, many people will guess as to why, and they could be correct, but Ford has not said what the underlying reasons are. Ford has told the media that it is to preserve battery health, but that isn't really an underlying reason. That quote from Ford can be found here.
Reasons for performance limitations:
Speed:
Speed limitations are based on MPH, they immediately fall off when you go below those limits. They always happen regardless of climate or other factors.
Acceleration:
Acceleration events are considered events where the car starts at 0mph, with full SOC. These events are via peak performance of the electric motors. In other words, a Wide Open Throttle (WOT) event. These bars do not appear under "normal" acceleration or slow acceleration. Additionally, acceleration at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle, can possibly trigger these bars however the time will not be the time listed in the below table. For the purpose of acceleration events it will always be considered a WOT event starting at 0mph in favorable conditions.
Bars from acceleration events do not immediately fall off. Additionally, if you accelerate from 0-80 (as an example) and you have acceleration bars that start falling off, re-accelerating can cause them to return until all of the acceleration bars fall off.
Climate:
Climate related bars are due to extreme cold or hot weather. It's obvious that you can't control these bars. I need the community help here because I live in a mild climate. Ambient temps are normally within a tight range of battery temps. The car monitors the battery temp when it applies performance limitations, but again, the metric that most people can see (without a OBD scanner) is the ambient and it should get us close enough.
Charging:
Charging related bars are seen mostly after DCFC events. I need the community help here because I don't know if they appear after preconditioning since I never use it.
SOCD:
SOCD related bars are from different states of battery charge. The vehicle applies bars to limit your performance as the battery state of charge lowers. My guess is that this is actually done on the SOC, not the SOCD, and therefore your SOCD might be slightly different than below, but it's approximately the same and should be in the same range.
Component Failures:
When components fail power is often limited
Why doesn't this look right?
Make sure that you are adding things up. For example 50% SOCD would be 2 bars, one from 74% SOCD and one more from 64% SOCD. If you have more than that it's likely to be from one of the other contributing factors. The charts above are based on those milestones. Since the bars are cumulative you must add the previous milestones and other factors together.
Mystery Bars??
For some unknown reason there are times when the car will have a large number of bars or a random solo bar. Sometimes this can be cleared with a power cycle and other times they just persist for a while. While they may be attributed in part, or wholly, to the aforementioned reasons sometimes people just can't figure out why they are there.
Conclusion:
I will continue to update the OP with further details and if I missed anything that causes bars please let me know so I can add it.
Lastly, is it really called a "performance limiter"?
No, I just made that up to make it sound fancy. Call it grey bars or jail bars... no one will know what you mean if you say "performance limiter".
Apparently there's a few people who don't understand the various limits placed on GT/GTPE trims. This thread will hopefully explain those in a easy to understand way. It's possible that these limitations also apply to non-GT models however, since they don't have the same display it's hard to say if they all apply equally.
Dispelling myths:
There are a few members here who believe they "know" why certain limits are applied to the car. The truth, and fact of the matter, is that they are just guessing. Ford has not confirmed any of these limits other than the 5 second limit. So, while the underlying reason behind the limits could technically be correct there's no quantifiable evidence to support their theories. This thread is based on quantifiable evidence, not imaginary dreams. Yes, you read that correctly, Ford HAS confirmed the 5 second limit here and per InsideEV, Ford confirmed this to them here:
Help Contribute:
I don't live in a cold climate and I don't have all the data to build out this post in it's entirety. I hope that the community can help put together the missing pieces. Again however, please prove your assertions instead of guessing. If it's a guess I might not include it unless I'm confident that it's correct. I will also attribute the limitations claimed to those members by name. This list has to be an effort of all members because of the diverse climates and situations that we all live in.
What is a performance limiter?
These are the grey bars that appear on the power indicator of the GT/GTPE trims. As the car limits power the power indicator is first left with a blank spot that is back filled with bars. These bars are sometimes referred to as jail bars. The bars are very small and hard to count unless you look very closely. It's important to note that these bars are cumulative. In other words, multiple limiting factors can contribute to the bars. One factor doesn't replace the other, instead they stack and the line of bars grows, further limiting power.
Why does Ford limit power?
Simply put, we don't know. Again, many people will guess as to why, and they could be correct, but Ford has not said what the underlying reasons are. Ford has told the media that it is to preserve battery health, but that isn't really an underlying reason. That quote from Ford can be found here.
Reasons for performance limitations:
Speed:
Speed limitations are based on MPH, they immediately fall off when you go below those limits. They always happen regardless of climate or other factors.
| MPH | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| 73 | 1-2 | DevSecOps | Depending on the SOC this can be 1 or 2 bars. If higher SOC it's just 1 bar, lower SOC can be 2 bars |
| 76 | 0-1 | DevSecOps | Depending on the SOC this bad can be included in the 73 MPH limit or it can be added 3mph after. |
| 80 | 2 | DevSecOps | |
| 85 | 1 | DevSecOps | |
| 87 | 1 | DevSecOps | |
| 90 | 1 | DevSecOps | |
| 92 | 1 | DevSecOps |
Acceleration:
Acceleration events are considered events where the car starts at 0mph, with full SOC. These events are via peak performance of the electric motors. In other words, a Wide Open Throttle (WOT) event. These bars do not appear under "normal" acceleration or slow acceleration. Additionally, acceleration at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle, can possibly trigger these bars however the time will not be the time listed in the below table. For the purpose of acceleration events it will always be considered a WOT event starting at 0mph in favorable conditions.
Bars from acceleration events do not immediately fall off. Additionally, if you accelerate from 0-80 (as an example) and you have acceleration bars that start falling off, re-accelerating can cause them to return until all of the acceleration bars fall off.
| Seconds | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| 5 | 5 | DevSecOps | These bars appear at the tail end of an acceleration event. They are added to the aforementioned speed limitations. For example: 0-95mph would result in 13 bars. 5 from acceleration and 8 from speed. As soon as you fall under 72 MPH the speed bars disappear and the acceleration bars remain and gradually fall off. |
Climate:
Climate related bars are due to extreme cold or hot weather. It's obvious that you can't control these bars. I need the community help here because I live in a mild climate. Ambient temps are normally within a tight range of battery temps. The car monitors the battery temp when it applies performance limitations, but again, the metric that most people can see (without a OBD scanner) is the ambient and it should get us close enough.
| External Temperature (F) | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
Charging:
Charging related bars are seen mostly after DCFC events. I need the community help here because I don't know if they appear after preconditioning since I never use it.
| Type of Event | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| DCFC | 4-8 | DevSecOps | Leaving a DCFC session can often result in bars that will fall off in time. In my testing it took about 7-10 minutes for these to fall off. |
SOCD:
SOCD related bars are from different states of battery charge. The vehicle applies bars to limit your performance as the battery state of charge lowers. My guess is that this is actually done on the SOC, not the SOCD, and therefore your SOCD might be slightly different than below, but it's approximately the same and should be in the same range.
| SOCD | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| 74% | 1 | DevSecOps | |
| 64% | 1 | DevSecOps | Total = 2 |
| 36% | 1 | DevSecOps | Total = 3 |
| 23% | 9 | DevSecOps | Total = 12 (Low Battery Trigger) |
| 15% | 1 | DevSecOps | Total = 13 |
Component Failures:
When components fail power is often limited
| Type Of Failure | # Of Bars | Contributing Member | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
| HVBJB | 21 | DevSecOps | This is probably the most common failure event to present power limitations. |
Why doesn't this look right?
Make sure that you are adding things up. For example 50% SOCD would be 2 bars, one from 74% SOCD and one more from 64% SOCD. If you have more than that it's likely to be from one of the other contributing factors. The charts above are based on those milestones. Since the bars are cumulative you must add the previous milestones and other factors together.
Mystery Bars??
For some unknown reason there are times when the car will have a large number of bars or a random solo bar. Sometimes this can be cleared with a power cycle and other times they just persist for a while. While they may be attributed in part, or wholly, to the aforementioned reasons sometimes people just can't figure out why they are there.
Conclusion:
I will continue to update the OP with further details and if I missed anything that causes bars please let me know so I can add it.
Lastly, is it really called a "performance limiter"?
No, I just made that up to make it sound fancy. Call it grey bars or jail bars... no one will know what you mean if you say "performance limiter".
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Last edited:
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