Melted 240V outlet (Major Disaster Avoided) -- PSA: only highly rated charging equipment

[devmach-e]

Then take a chance with ur life and ur property I'm only an Electrician for 2 different states

So, you think you know more than the NFPA in this particular section of the NEC? What is your proposed language change to fix this supposed issue?

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[devmach-e]

I ran 6ga for 2 runs (one a little shorter, one a little longer). I think it was spec'ed out at 8ga, but I went larger to lower resistance and to future proof. It was a b*tch to run. Another thing that is important is the torque on the connectors, gotta make sure that they are tight. Also using a 40 amp breaker for the Mach-E.

Are you charging at 40A? or 32A?

 

[Scooby24]

Then take a chance with ur life and ur property I'm only an Electrician for 2 different states

With all due respect....electricians are who are installing these commercial grade outlets and completely shocked to learn that industrial grade outlets exist and should be utilized so...not the best qualification given the current state of the industry's lack of knowledge in this space.

 

[devmach-e]

Wow, $60 for an outlet. Another reason to just hardwire it.

Or you can see it as for a $40 more installation cost, you get enhanced protection and maintain flexibility in your charging setup. Not everyone wants to, or can, hardwire.

 

[Snakebitten]

The oil thread for EV

 

[RonBme]

With all due respect....electricians are who are installing these commercial grade outlets and completely shocked to learn that industrial grade outlets exist and should be utilized so...not the best qualification given the current state of the industry's lack of knowledge in this space.

Even commercial grade isn't strong enough. Thus the reason why people have been complaining about a burning smell or a fire in their garage because they heat up. They melt and they catch on fire. It's not wrong wire size. There was nothing wrong. The plugs are not designed to handle that type of power 100% and 100% of the time... By the way, the NEC code book is only a suggestion

 

[RonBme]

With all due respect....electricians are who are installing these commercial grade outlets and completely shocked to learn that industrial grade outlets exist and should be utilized so...not the best qualification given the current state of the industry's lack of knowledge in this space.

 

[RonBme]

Yes, I'm an electrician. Unfortunately the NEC code book only suggests what we should do. It doesn't tell us what to do. It gives you a high gives you a low you can still use in between me. Personally I oversize my wires on my panel and mines are just fine. Oh by the way, it is hardwired directly into my charger so there are zero issues I can't speak for everybody. Some people's houses burn down. Some people lose us their plugs and where they have to have an electrician come out. But any electrician you talk to should tell you anything over 40 amps. Hardwire because that type of power will eat that plug alive. The plug can't handle it. By the way, NEC code book doesn't tell these companies how to make these plugs. They're not using porcelain. They're using plastic plastic gets hot plastic melts

 

[Scooby24]

Even commercial grade isn't strong enough. Thus the reason why people have been complaining about a burning smell or a fire in their garage because they heat up. They melt and they catch on fire. It's not wrong wire size. There was nothing wrong. The plugs are not designed to handle that type of power 100% and 100% of the time... By the way, the NEC code book is only a suggestion

So uh...kinda going back to what I was saying about Electricians... I shouldn't need to clarify the difference between industrial and commercial grade to one.

Industrial grade. Industrial grade are the outlets you don't find in Commercial Stores, because they are industrial.

And the people complaining about the burning smell or fire in the garage are not using industrial grade outlets. I'd challenge you to find me a single instance...just one....where a melted outlet was an industrial grade one. Just one.

 

[devmach-e]

Even commercial grade isn't strong enough. Thus the reason why people have been complaining about a burning smell or a fire in their garage because they heat up. They melt and they catch on fire. It's not wrong wire size. There was nothing wrong. The plugs are not designed to handle that type of power 100% and 100% of the time... By the way, the NEC code book is only a suggestion

Oh, so I don't have to follow the NEC code book when re-wiring the house? That's awesome. I wonder if my insurance company would agree...

Nobody here is suggesting commercial grade outlets like the cheap ones available at home improvement stores. We've been pretty consistent in suggesting using an industrial one that is actually engineered to be ran continuously for 3 hours or more. And those outlets have not resulted in any reported fires. All the fires reported here are using the cheap commercial ones, and at well under the rated amperage for the outlet.

 

[areacode413]

Thought EVSEs over 32amp are only hard wired? So 32 amp draw under certain conditions cause the receptacles to melt?

 

[RonBme]

So uh...kinda going back to what I was saying about Electricians... I shouldn't need to clarify the difference between industrial and commercial grade to one.

Industrial grade. Industrial grade are the outlets you don't find in Commercial Stores, because they are industrial.

And the people complaining about the burning smell or fire in the garage are not using industrial grade outlets. I'd challenge you to find me a single instance...just one....where a melted outlet was an industrial grade one. Just one... They are using commercial plugs all those plugs are the same this is the reason why we the electricians are telling people not to use them because over time they will end up replacing or rebuilding over a plug if u look up the specs u will notice it can't handle the power check the spec's u will find out those plugs are to be used for a few hours at a time not 10 plus hours 100% of the time

 

[Scooby24]

Yes, I'm an electrician. Unfortunately the NEC code book only suggests what we should do. It doesn't tell us what to do. It gives you a high gives you a low you can still use in between me. Personally I oversize my wires on my panel and mines are just fine. Oh by the way, it is hardwired directly into my charger so there are zero issues I can't speak for everybody. Some people's houses burn down. Some people lose us their plugs and where they have to have an electrician come out. But any electrician you talk to should tell you anything over 40 amps. Hardwire because that type of power will eat that plug alive. The plug can't handle it. By the way, NEC code book doesn't tell these companies how to make these plugs. They're not using porcelain. They're using plastic plastic gets hot plastic melts

Which is why industrial outlets are made using different blends of plastic, which provides it 15c higher thermal tolerance range. Not to mention thicker internal bus bars, clamps vs screws, larger blade surface area...all designed to keep temperatures down. They aren't even the same SIZE (Industrial are larger and need a larger face plate)

https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevic...-single-pack/p/162158#resources-and-downloads

Housing : Reinforced Thermoplastic Polyester
Operating Temperatures - -40°C to 75°C
Flammability - UL 94 V-0

vs

https://leviton.com/products/279-s00

Housing : Polypropylene
Operating Temperature : -40°C to 60°C
Flammability : Rated V-2 per UL 94

The "all the plugs(receptacles) are the same" is just patently false...and further reinforces my opinions that you all don't really know what you think you know.

 

[devmach-e]

Thought EVSEs over 32amp are only hard wired? So 32 amp draw under certain conditions cause the receptacles to melt?

Current code in most jurisdictions allow up to 40A on a plug-in connection using a 14-50 outlet. There are some jurisdictions that have adopted a newer version of the NEC (2022?) which allows a 14-60 outlet to be used, so a 48A plug-in EVSE would be allowed.

 

[devmach-e]

But any electrician you talk to should tell you anything over 40 amps. Hardwire because that type of power will eat that plug alive. The plug can't handle it. By the way, NEC code book doesn't tell these companies how to make these plugs. They're not using porcelain. They're using plastic plastic gets hot plastic melts

Oh, so 40A is now okay? Previously you were saying nothing over 32A. I'm confused.

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