Rabidsquirrel22

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Absolutely nothing new or unexpected here. Like we've figured out months ago, the car is a beast from 0-40 mph, faster than the Tesla, then starts to limit power gradually until ~80 mph, at which point it's at half power.

It annoys me that Motortrend does no real-world range tests in these EV head to heads. Giving the Tesla the nod for cheaper price and a better interior also seems pretty ridiculous. The tax credit more than offsets the price, and the fact that the Mach-E has better performance seats, carplay & android auto, a driver's screen, and better cabin insolation more than makes up for any weak argument they had in favor of the Tesla's aesthetics.
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nvabill

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Interesting that they talk pricing, but never once mention the Mach E is eligible for the $7500 tax credit and the Tesla is not. the Mach E is effectively $3500-$4000 CHEAPER than the Tesla rather than $3500 more expensive, as mentioned multiple times in the article. And the interior comments are ludicrous.

With all that said, I would love to have the Mach E GT with the Tesla drivetrain ;)
Once Ford sells 200,000 EV's then the tax credit is phased out and everyone isn't in the same tax situation so that isn't really a permanent thing.
 

nvabill

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Tesla Model Y

 

Mach Daddy

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Plot twist. The 5s limiter is there so you buy the electric Mustang coupe.
 

BillK

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https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-model-y-vs-ford-mustang-mach-e-gt-comparison-test-review/

Ok @Ford Motor Company, all of the major mainstream mags are now calling the GTPE the loser against the Y Performance and it seems that if the 5 sec. 100% power rule didn’t exist you’d have a winner to celebrate in ads instead. This does not look good for the upcoming hybrid and BEV Mustangs either. Something needs to be said/done.
I often see complaints about the 5 second limit but it is almost certainly a hardware constraint due to heating. That means there is no software update that could change it and maintain the durability of the car. The batteries, wires, inverters, and motors all have some small resistance to the flow of electricity. That resistance causes heat. Thanks to Ohm's Law the heat generated by any resistance increases with the square of the current. The way around this limit is to use bigger and more expensive components with lower resistance.

All electric cars reduce power when components reach or approach their thermal limit. Overheating mechanical parts will damage them but overheating lithium batteries will get you on the news. Ford seems to allow the electrical components to be pushed beyond their limits, but only for that 5 seconds that will get you to the speed limit anywhere in the country.

If you want a car that can go balls-out all the time all you have to do is pay twice as much and get that silly Tesla Plaid or a lovely Lucid Air GT. The 5 second rule isn't gonna change (well, maybe a little)
 

Mach1E

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I often see complaints about the 5 second limit but it is almost certainly a hardware constraint due to heating. That means there is no software update that could change it and maintain the durability of the car. The batteries, wires, inverters, and motors all have some small resistance to the flow of electricity. That resistance causes heat. Thanks to Ohm's Law the heat generated by any resistance increases with the square of the current. The way around this limit is to use bigger and more expensive components with lower resistance.

All electric cars reduce power when components reach or approach their thermal limit. Overheating mechanical parts will damage them but overheating lithium batteries will get you on the news. Ford seems to allow the electrical components to be pushed beyond their limits, but only for that 5 seconds that will get you to the speed limit anywhere in the country.

If you want a car that can go balls-out all the time all you have to do is pay twice as much and get that silly Tesla Plaid or a lovely Lucid Air GT. The 5 second rule isn't gonna change (well, maybe a little)
Almost certainly hardware?

We know it’s a programmed software limit and have seen all the temperature logs of people doing multiple back to back 0-100 mph runs.

So what makes you think it’s “almost certainly” hardware?

Yes, all electric cars limit power. But never before has one limited this much power in this short of a time.
 

Riotous

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What a flawed review. Somebody just mailed this in.

Yes, the Mach-E rides and handles better, and its braking is superb, but the Tesla is the better all-around choice.
1. It gets going incredibly quickly, (but not as quickly as Mach-e)
2. has no qualms about reaching speed, (only superior on a drag strip)
3. charges at a faster rate, (ok)
4. feels more premium, (huh? I guess they haven't actually sat in one)
5. and it drives very nearly as well on a twisty road (really? Not in my experience)

Then Pros and Cons....

Mach-E
Pros:
  • Handsome styling - critical, looks so much better
  • Superb ride and handling - is there something more important in a car in this class?
  • Grabby brakes - whatever
Cons:

  • High-speed limitations - 0-80 is super fast, 80 to 105 is super fast. 0-105, meh, but who cares?
  • Elevated Price - uh, it's cheaper than than Y
  • Longer charging time - a few minutes? I don't know, i charge overnight at home, dont care

Model Y
Pros:
  • Quick accelerations - it doesn't accel any faster than the Mach-E
  • Fast charging - i guess, if you rapid charge a lot, but not important to my use case
  • Futuristic interior = butt ugly
Cons:
  • Ride is a bit harsh - wait what? You wrote about that it drives nearly as well on the twisties
  • Interior quality could improve - wait what? you wrote above it feels more premium?
  • Range is misleading - yeah, all EVs are.
 

BillK

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@Mach1E
Well, first of all Ford wouldn't have that limit if they didn't need to. Yes, it is a software limit put in place to save the hardware from destroying itself. Ford would Love to beat the Tesla if the hardware could do it. Probably some future model will.

No, this isn't about coolant temperatures. It takes time for heat to move from within battery cells where it is created to the outside surfaces where it can be absorbed by coolant. The rear inverter has beautiful heat sinks attached to the cutting edge silicon carbide MOSFETs but the heat is generated inside the chips and takes time to migrate out. The outer coils of the motors are not in direct contact with the coolant (water and electricity don't mix), so it takes time to move that heat to the coolant heat exchanger.

You can pass your hand through a 1,000 degree flame if it is only there for an instant. Leave it there and you will be trying to file a warranty claim.
 

Mach1E

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@Mach1E
Well, first of all Ford wouldn't have that limit if they didn't need to. Yes, it is a software limit put in place to save the hardware from destroying itself. Ford would Love to beat the Tesla if the hardware could do it. Probably some future model will.

No, this isn't about coolant temperatures. It takes time for heat to move from within battery cells where it is created to the outside surfaces where it can be absorbed by coolant. The rear inverter has beautiful heat sinks attached to the cutting edge silicon carbide MOSFETs but the heat is generated inside the chips and takes time to migrate out. The outer coils of the motors are not in direct contact with the coolant (water and electricity don't mix), so it takes time to move that heat to the coolant heat exchanger.

You can pass your hand through a 1,000 degree flame if it is only there for an instant. Leave it there and you will be trying to file a warranty claim.
Even during full throttle in the first 5 seconds, the inverters are already cooling significantly. Just look at the logs.

You assume they “needed” to put the limit in. Based on what?

Did they need to limit us to 88 kwh in the battery? Well they already raised it to 91.

Did they need to limit charging speeds above 80%? Well they fixed that too.

They are being more conservative than ANY other BEV out there and you’re assuming they had to? Again, based on what?

Here is the temp logs if you didn’t see them:

134FE403-9A9C-4538-8C31-D8DB66237654.jpeg
 

tvguyemt

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https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-model-y-vs-ford-mustang-mach-e-gt-comparison-test-review/

Ok @Ford Motor Company, all of the major mainstream mags are now calling the GTPE the loser against the Y Performance and it seems that if the 5 sec. 100% power rule didn’t exist you’d have a winner to celebrate in ads instead. This does not look good for the upcoming hybrid and BEV Mustangs either. Something needs to be said/done.
yet the Model Y axels keep on breaking. Too much torque that they can’t control.
 

Detroit_Ford_Rocks

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Ford did a great job, coming from a Focus EV considering this is a hot selling car with top tier specs. You guys sound like the Mach E is a failure. Not much can be said with GM’s fried Bolt or Chrysanthis. It‘s not too far off from a launch that it’s a drivers race to the supermarket.
 

rgreene

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I really enjoy my GTPE. The 5 second thing is overblown to me, as I use it as my dad-mobile with the occasional weekend spirited driving session.

I got mine before any of the 5 second stuff came to light, and I’ve thought about if I would have changed my mind on taking delivery if I had known about it. In the end, I’m glad I did. The car has all the features I care about, feels well enough put together, and in my normal driving around has plenty of power to put a smile on my face.

For me the 5 second thing is really disappointing because I feel like the potential should be there, and I bought this car under the assumption it was, regardless of the fact that I don’t need it on a daily basis.

I’m sure that @Ford Motor Company can’t acknowledge any efforts which may or may not be underway to address this, or even the issue itself, but it’d sure be nice for something.
 
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ARK

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Once Ford sells 200,000 EV's then the tax credit is phased out and everyone isn't in the same tax situation so that isn't really a permanent thing.
True, but like Tesla and GM, Ford is almost certainly pricing the Mach-E with the knowledge that the tax credit remains in effect. Once it starts to phase out and disappear, it's likely that Ford will implement a price cut across the Mach-E lineup.
 

clsmooths

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Yeah the 5 second rule is absolutely crazy, but my gut feeling is that FMC is doing this for a reason. First generation fully electric crossover/SUV and they went out with a bang with the MME(way to go Ford!!). Therfore, I can see the executives deciding to implement this five second rule to see what their new technology is all about and not have the chance of batteries failing on them. Then the FMC is going to have a mess on their hands getting them fixed or replaced. I'm sure Ford is doing incredible amount of data work and getting feed back from their consumers on how well the car performs and truly belive that FMC will send out updates to allow the car to perform much better after 60-80 MPH.
Tesla is a awesome car, butttttt I see way too many of them and they look all the same from model to model to me. Got to admidt this will be my 3rd Ford and never been disappointed. So I truly believe FMC will resolve this problem, just give them time folks and Motortrend will speak about this differently someday.
I ordered the GT PE Space White and should see it in May and crossing my fingers things will be updated with the performance that you expect to receive. Good luck and enjoy your electric pony!!
 

nvabill

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True, but like Tesla and GM, Ford is almost certainly pricing the Mach-E with the knowledge that the tax credit remains in effect. Once it starts to phase out and disappear, it's likely that Ford will implement a price cut across the Mach-E lineup.
Based on????
 
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