Need Help with an electrical issue, please.

glaudeja

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So I just hooked up my NEMA 14-50 outlet inside my garage, using 6/3 wire to a 50 Amp 2 pole breaker. Everything works great, no issues. My question is though.

A buddy of mine told me after the fact that it is code to use a GFCI 50 Amp breaker for EV's. I didn't use one. Uggh. What issues will I have if I keep it the regular breaker. Is it a wetting issue with the Ford plug going into the car if I'm charging it outside and it rains?
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So long as the receptacle/plug and the EVSE itself remains dry, you shouldn't have any issues. The J1772 plug and your car being outside charging is fine - the mobile EVSE has it's own GFCI protections built-in.
 
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glaudeja

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So long as the receptacle/plug and the EVSE itself remains dry, you shouldn't have any issues. The J1772 plug and your car being outside charging is fine - the mobile EVSE has it's own GFCI protections built-in.
The charger that comes in the bag from FORD, is that the EVSE you refer to? It's a small box that says FORD on it with a small adapter plug in for either 120 or 240V.
 

methorian

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The charger that comes in the bag from FORD, is that the EVSE you refer to? It's a small box that says FORD on it with a small adapter plug in for either 120 or 240V.
Yessir - that's it.

If you're really concerned it'd be pretty easy to swap out the breaker for a GFCI unit. So long as there isn't normally wet conditions around the 50A receptacle, I wouldn't worry much. We had 50A receptacles installed for years without GFI/GFCI protections. My state/locality hasn't adopted the new NEC standards, so it's still not required here.
 

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The mobile charger that comes with your MME does recommend using a GFCI outlet. Most of the big name aftermarket chargers (EVSEs, technically) actually specify to NOT use a GFCI outlet as they have internal GFCI circuit, and it is not recommended to connect a GFCI into a GFCI.

If you are concerned about it, check your with your state and local utility to see if you are eligible for any EVSE rebates. There is also a federal rebate that is available, but you should verify your eligibility. Many people are able to nearly 100% offset the cost of an EVSE with those rebates.
 


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So I just hooked up my NEMA 14-50 outlet inside my garage, using 6/3 wire to a 50 Amp 2 pole breaker. Everything works great, no issues. My question is though.

A buddy of mine told me after the fact that it is code to use a GFCI 50 Amp breaker for EV's. I didn't use one. Uggh. What issues will I have if I keep it the regular breaker. Is it a wetting issue with the Ford plug going into the car if I'm charging it outside and it rains?
I wouldn't worry about it, I had a breaker already in my box that was for a range that was converted to gas long ago. While it's not to code it not a big deal. The 50 AMP GFCI breakers are also expensive. If it was outside I say to change it, but since inside the garage I would leave it for now. If you go to sell the house, then you might be required to update it.

This is for plug-in chargers, the wall chargers that are wired direct do not require or call for it. It's the very opposite, as GFCI is built into the charger etc.
 
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glaudeja

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I wouldn't worry about it, I had a breaker already in my box that was for a range that was converted to gas long ago. While it's not to code it not a big deal. The 50 AMP GFCI breakers are also expensive. If it was outside I say to change it, but since inside the garage I would leave it for now. If you go to sell the house, then you might be required to update it.

This is for plug-in chargers, the wall chargers that are wired direct do not require or call for it. It's the very opposite, as GFCI is built into the charger etc.
So my panel with the breaker is in the basement. The NEMA 14-50 outlet is inside the garage. No wetting issues here. But what about if the car is parked outside, charging? Is the charging port and plug in, water tight? Is this a concern.
 

methorian

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So my panel with the breaker is in the basement. The NEMA 14-50 outlet is inside the garage. No wetting issues here. But what about if the car is parked outside, charging? Is the charging port and plug in, water tight? Is this a concern.
That isn't a concern as the EVSE (the FORD box that you've plugged into the outlet) is GFCI protected. So the cord going from that box to the J1772 plug into your car would be protected.
 
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glaudeja

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That isn't a concern as the EVSE (the FORD box that you've plugged into the outlet) is GFCI protected. So the cord going from that box to the J1772 plug into your car would be protected.
The one guy on here, said that the charger that comes in the bag from Ford, does not have a GFCI built in. He mentioned that it sates that is requires a GFCI.
 

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If you are using the EVSE that comes with the MME, the recommendation is to use a GFCI. I doubt, however, that the EVSE doesn't have a GFCI since that's in the standard. More likely it was just engineered for the possibility that there will be a second GFCI on the circuit. Most EVSE aren't and that can cause tripping issues. In fact most state that they will not work on a GFCI protected circuit.

Code requirements usually are designed to address a problem which has come up in practice. I have no idea what problem this was designed to address but I doubt it had anything to do with EV charging. My reasoning here is that this is a relatively new requirement and, had the problem involved EV charging, we would have definitely heard about it.

When considering what to do, keep in mind that code likely required you to pull a permit. Consequently, even if you install a GFCI breaker you will still be in violation, assuming of course that you didn't permit the job.

Also note that the Ford mobile charger only pulls 30A. This means you could use a 6-50 outlet with an adapter. The best setup for this would be the wire you've installed with a standard 40A breaker to match the EVSE.
 
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Dnorwood98

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I know that my local code is that if it is garage circuit it does have to be GFCI protected. Have an electrician coming tomorrow to get a quote to get the circuit and plug installed for the mobile charger. Will eventually get a Juicebox or Chargepoint Flex to plug into it.
 
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glaudeja

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If you are using the EVSE that comes with the MME, the recommendation is to use a GFCI. I doubt, however, that the EVSE doesn't have a GFCI since that's in the standard. More likely it was just engineered for the possibility that there will be a second GFCI on the circuit. Most EVSE aren't and that can cause tripping issues. In fact most state that they will not work on a GFCI protected circuit.

Code requirements usually are designed to address a problem which has come up in practice. I have no idea what problem this was designed to address but I doubt it had anything to do with EV charging. My reasoning here is that this is a relatively new requirement and, had the problem involved EV charging, we would have definitely heard about it.

When considering what to do, keep in mind that code likely required you to pull a permit. Consequently, even if you install a GFCI breaker you will still be in violation, assuming of course that you didn't permit the job.

Also note that the Ford mobile charger only pulls 30A. This means you could use a 6-50 outlet with an adapter. The best setup for this would be the wire you've installed with a standard 40A breaker to match the EVSE.
I used a 50 Amp breaker, with a 14-50 outlet, with 6/3 wire.
 
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glaudeja

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If you are using the EVSE that comes with the MME, the recommendation is to use a GFCI. I doubt, however, that the EVSE doesn't have a GFCI since that's in the standard. More likely it was just engineered for the possibility that there will be a second GFCI on the circuit. Most EVSE aren't and that can cause tripping issues. In fact most state that they will not work on a GFCI protected circuit.

Code requirements usually are designed to address a problem which has come up in practice. I have no idea what problem this was designed to address but I doubt it had anything to do with EV charging. My reasoning here is that this is a relatively new requirement and, had the problem involved EV charging, we would have definitely heard about it.

When considering what to do, keep in mind that code likely required you to pull a permit. Consequently, even if you install a GFCI breaker you will still be in violation, assuming of course that you didn't permit the job.

Also note that the Ford mobile charger only pulls 30A. This means you could use a 6-50 outlet with an adapter. The best setup for this would be the wire you've installed with a standard 40A breaker to match the EVSE.
Seems like it is not necessary if the Ford EVSE already has the GFCI built in to even have a 50A GFCI breaker at the panel. 2 GFCI's on the same circuit. Makes no sense at all.
 

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Seems like it is not necessary if the Ford EVSE already has the GFCI built in to even have a 50A GFCI breaker at the panel. 2 GFCI's on the same circuit. Makes no sense at all.
Yes it makes little sense and creates problems. (Most EVSE won't work with this setup so you have to hardwire them). However, like I said, the code is usually a response to a specific problem. In this case it's unlikely to have involved an EVSE or any other device which had a GFCI. But since you can plug any number of devices into an outlet, it's hard to make an exception. Though in fact this does occur with the requirement of a label stating that only X device can use the outlet, they just went ahead and required a GFCI. This no doubt solved the problem they were looking at but has created problems for EV charging.

The reason 40A breakers would be better than 50A is that they match the EVSE. While the saying is "the breaker protects the wire", it's also true that it protects the appliance.

I just noticed you are in Canada. Would the requirement for the 14-50 outlet even apply to you? As noted it's the rule in many but not all US jurisdictions.
 

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Seems like it is not necessary if the Ford EVSE already has the GFCI built in to even have a 50A GFCI breaker at the panel. 2 GFCI's on the same circuit. Makes no sense at all.
I wired a 240v NEMA 14-50 in my garage, too, and it is NOT on a GFCI. The reason it's not is because the EVSE I'm using plugged into it specifically states NOT to have it on a GFCI, because that could cause tripping issues. I know you're using the mobile charger, but I really would not worry about it. You're all done :)

FYI the car and charger are designed to be used outdoors in all-weather conditions. Keep the unit sheltered right where it's plugged in, best you can.
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