No live power usage data?

[Mach-Lee]

I'm pretty interested that this is your take on this, you of all people should know that the majority of that information especially in real time just doesn't matter, in fact serves little to no purpose outside of some aggregated minimum for utility, which is provided by ford and along with most of the design queues of this car is simply omitted, aren't you an engineer?

My take is that if Ford can show instantaneous fuel economy in their ICE vehicles (which they do), they can show the same type of info in their EVs. In particular, I'd like to see a "past 1 minute" average display. Some people will find that useful, even non-engineers.

Ford's previous EV, the Focus Electric, had this type of live/recent efficiency display. A bunch of us were surprised when that got omitted from the new Mach-E model.

Not sure if you've even been in a situation where you were trying to make it to a charger but had a dramatic decrease in efficiency that caused you to arrive much lower than anticipated, but it's scary. I'll give an example of why you want a recent average display:

I was on my last leg of a road trip. Cruise control was locked in at 75 MPH for the past two hours. I was getting a typical 2.6 mi/kWh. Route planning said I was going to arrive with about 12% at my destination and was stable the whole way so far. But then with about 45 minutes left, a cold front came through and it started raining. I pressed on. About 20 minutes later, the route planning suddenly said I was going to arrive with only 5%! WTF. So I slowed down to 70. Then a few minutes later ABRP said I needed to slow down to 55 MPH! I did, but then a couple minutes later it said I wasn't going to make it! By this point the charge level was down to 9%, I still had about 20 miles left to go, and there were no DC chargers anywhere nearby being a rural area. I got off the freeway and started driving even slower. A while later I got the "Chargers Unreachable" message on the display. But my rough calculations said I would just make it, so I continued going <45 MPH. Finally I arrived at my destination with only 4% remaining, but the trip efficiency display had only decreased to about 2.3 mi/kWh. That was close!

The route planning initially said I was going to arrive with 12% verses 4%, an error of 8%. But that's with slowing down. If I would have maintained 75 MPH the rest of the way, I wouldn't have made it, which means the actual error was likely >12%. That's very high error because typically I get there within about 5% or less of predicted.

Eventually I figured out the reason the predictions were way off was because the rain, wind, and lower temperatures from the cold front dramatically decreased my efficiency during the last leg of the trip. I estimate the efficiency dropped from 2.6 mi/kWh to only 1.8 mi/kWh. Had I been able to see that drop on a live efficiency display, I would have taken action to slow down much sooner and more aggressively than I did. It took me about 20 minutes to get a handle on the efficiency situation instead of it taking just a glance, which wasted precious time. That trip is why I really want the live display in my next EV.

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[eponey]

....

The reason that stuff is there is that the car is older and the range is worse. When EV's were new all this newfangled stuff was fun to show off and very pertinent if you had a very small battery, but batteries are bigger and EV's are a little more "normal".

The focus electric had a 33kwh battery vs you know what the MME has....

I would assume your mi/kw was marching down during the trip if you were looking (it always does on my trips?), I would totally advocate for it to be over with the range and battery %, but it's simply on the center screen on the "task bar".

Problem with your story vs the remainder of this thread the effect of temperature on your cars energy usage is complex and not even wholistically included on a real-time energy readout including the decrease in efficiency of the battery chemistry, but you know this.

It's (real time energy usage) is not there because it's really not that important, lets be brutally honest.

 

[Tampamike]

….

So, is this what you do for kicks? Must be a lot of fun at parties.

 

[eponey]

So, is this what you do for kicks? Must be a lot of fun at parties.

Sometimes....I could post more prose about this, the drivers display is very simple, it has a very low cognitive load, I'm unsure why cluttering it with more (and what I'm advocating for, not useful information) would be good for the driving experience.

I'm sorry for the brevity, like I said in the response to mach lee, all for one more number that is a fair measure of efficiency on the IPC, all for that.

I guess I would actually care less if they put all this stuff in an app for the center display, go wild, but wait it's sort of there inside the trip app...

I guess at a more basal level I was hoping that I could convince the OP that worrying about the amount of power that his heater is using is not a frugal use of his mental energy and he could place his efforts elsewhere when he drives.

Moreover you don't think this topic didn't come up when they developed the car, making this car more complicated is like the antithesis of its design.

 

[blakehaas]

Sometimes....I could post more prose about this, the drivers display is very simple, it has a very low cognitive load, I'm unsure why cluttering it with more (and what I'm advocating for, not useful information) would be good for the driving experience.

I'm sorry for the brevity, like I said in the response to mach lee, all for one more number that is a fair measure of efficiency on the IPC, all for that.

I guess I would actually care less if they put all this stuff in an app for the center display, go wild, but wait it's sort of there inside the trip app...

I guess at a more basal level I was hoping that I could convince the OP that worrying about the amount of power that his heater is using is not a frugal use of his mental energy and he could place his efforts elsewhere when he drives.

Moreover you don't think this topic didn't come up when they developed the car, making this car more complicated is like the antithesis of its design.

I'm not saying it should be the default, but at least give an option for those of us who want that data. The bolt has 3 modes. The advanced mode shows that energy usage. It just feels like Ford cut some corners in that respect. The bolt even has a nice indicator bar that shows your live trend on the estimated range. That way is much less of a guess meter and something you can more rely on. With the mustang I don't even get immediate range update when I turn on the heater. In the bolt the range immediately adjusts to tell you the new estimated range with that energy draw.

I don't think anyone is saying it needs to be default.

 

[devmach-e]

These values can be displayed with obd2 dongle (heater output kW etc.) on the centre screen:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...roid-auto-without-needing-work-arounds.38541/

Thank you for pointing this thread out!

 

[eponey]

I'm not saying it should be the default, but at least give an option for those of us who want that data. The bolt has 3 modes. The advanced mode shows that energy usage. It just feels like Ford cut some corners in that respect. The bolt even has a nice indicator bar that shows your live trend on the estimated range. That way is much less of a guess meter and something you can more rely on. With the mustang I don't even get immediate range update when I turn on the heater. In the bolt the range immediately adjusts to tell you the new estimated range with that energy draw.

I don't think anyone is saying it needs to be default.

I would be all for giving ford a hard time about the questionable guess-o-meter, this sentiment is a great one.

I think the current guess-o-meter is some what of a compromise because if you put the hvac on auto it may use a lot of energy for a time, but it may use very little the next minute, you would want the guess-o-meter to jump around in real time as it's just doing its thing?

Think about all the variables that go into range -ambient temp, wind speed and direction, change in altitude, car speed, precipitation, tire pressure, tire tread, hvac usage, accessory usage...etc.

Think about the relative impact of things too the motors can generate up to ~250KW of force in your car, your hvac uses ~5kw of energy....

 

[blakehaas]

I would be all for giving ford a hard time about the questionable guess-o-meter, this sentiment is a great one.

I think the current guess-o-meter is some what of a compromise because if you put the hvac on auto it may use a lot of energy for a time, but it may use very little the next minute, you would want the guess-o-meter to jump around in real time as it's just doing its thing?

Think about all the variables that go into range -ambient temp, wind speed and direction, change in altitude, car speed, precipitation, tire pressure, tire tread, hvac usage, accessory usage...etc.

In the bolt, it adjusts assuming you use the hvac or whatever for the remainder of your trip. So if you start with 250 miles and turn on the heat. The range adjusts to 215. So if you keep the heat on for the rest of the battery, you'll go about 215. With it off, 250.

Its just very transparent about what affects the range and gives you real time data to make decisions on it.

 

[eponey]

In the bolt, it adjusts assuming you use the hvac or whatever for the remainder of your trip. So if you start with 250 miles and turn on the heat. The range adjusts to 215. So if you keep the heat on for the rest of the battery, you'll go about 215. With it off, 250.

Its just very transparent about what affects the range and gives you real time data to make decisions on it.

That's not how the heater works, its only on when it's needed, there is an auto button for this purpose, to save battery and increase range, it would be nonsensical to assume that it would be using 5kw for the remainder of the journey in all cases.

 

[blakehaas]

That's not how the heater works, its only on when it's needed, there is an auto button for this purpose, to save battery and increase range, it would be nonsensical to assume that it would be using 5kw for the remainder of the journey in all cases.

Seems like you are making assumptions. The estimated range is accounting for the cycle of 5kw on and off etc. The estimations are quite accurate. I guess you'll never know unless you have a bolt how nice it is.

 

[eponey]

Seems like you are making assumptions. The estimated range is accounting for the cycle of 5kw on and off etc. The estimations are quite accurate. I guess you'll never know unless you have a bolt how nice it is.

We're talking about 5kw here...your motors can consume over 250kw..dude. forest for the trees.

 

[blakehaas]

We're talking about 5kw here...your motors can consume over 250kw..dude. forest for the trees.

Let's just agree to disagree. Losing 40 plus miles of range is important to know. Especially new ev users.

 

[eponey]

Let's just agree to disagree. Losing 40 plus miles of range is important to know. Especially new ev users.

wait wait wait.....you think the heater is the only reason this is happening?

Density of the air....decrease in the efficiency of the battery chemistry, it's not just the PTC.

Range is far more complicated then the heater's power draw.

You'll find the guess-o-meter is hopelessly pessimistic in the cold.


just an FYI - when put on auto the heater runs only on the floor vents because heat rises, air only runs out of the dash because cool air sinks....they REALLY try to maximize it's efficiency. Plus the heater might just run to keep the battery warm and there's nothing you can do about that.

 

[devmach-e]

Let's just agree to disagree. Losing 40 plus miles of range is important to know. Especially new ev users.

In the Bolt (I was an owner, too) there was never an actual loss of range. Just a guesstimated loss.

 

[blakehaas]

In the Bolt (I was an owner, too) there was never an actual loss of range. Just a guesstimated loss.

Are you saying that running the heat resulted in no actual loss of range?

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