Taking the Solar Plunge!

[nhammerschmidt]

Recently the 3 year fixed price contract for electric that I had in place expired. Based on the current rates my per KW/h rate shot up 200%, so I started looking at ways to insulate myself from rising costs. I decided to give solar a try. I live in NE Ohio and after doing a ton of research and price shopping, I think I have found my contractor. There is a 26% tax credit on the panels that expires at the end of this year so I figured there is no time like the present. Soon I will be charging my MME using the power of the sun!

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[timbop]

Just be careful - make sure you BUY the panels (fixed term financing is OK) instead of having a power purchase agreement that essentially is a lifetime lease (your lifetime). I finally got panels last march and am loving it, except right now because there's 4" of snow on my panels so they're producing zilch today. I have enough kwh credits banked so it's no big deal, but I thought I'd mention it. My electricity provider also let me set the "true-up" date to March; that is the day when you get paid for any kwh banked and your "banked" value gets reset. By resetting my banked value in March when the panels will start producing more than I will use I ensure as much "cushion" during winter to make up for snow covered panels and short days.

 

[Scooby24]

Great decision (so long as it's financially viable).

Just be aware of the true return. Winter has taken a toll on my output for my 13.86kwh system. On the sunniest of days I can produce 42kwh right now while the sun is at its lowest. That's still more than enough to make up for most people's commute, but it's not enough to account for the rest of my energy demands (higher than most due to ~50kwh/day from ETH mining)

 

[frontrunner]

I've had solar panels for a few years now. Between the 30% tax rebate, and the SRECS, it's been terrific. My minimum payment is $2.78 just to be hooked into the grid, and I have numerous months where that's all I pay, on top of making a few hundred on the SRECS. Enjoy and good luck.

Edit: don't just go low bidder for the contractor. We did and they went out of business and were shady. Fortunately I was out no money when it happened. We then used SunRun who were excellent.

 

[highmesa]

I put in solar a few years ago. With the 30% federal credit (now 26%?) and with 300+ days of sun here in NM, payback on the system was just under 6 years. I think I did a pretty good job of estimating system size as I was running a small surplus balance after 2 years of use. Now that I added the EV, I am again paying electric bills. Averaging about $40 month of usage which is way less that the $150/month I was spending on gas. I have been debating adding panels for the car, but I don´t think it is worth it at this point. If my wife gets an EV, I may revisit.

I agree with the buy/finance and don´t lease statement. And find a reputable insaller.

 

[dtbaker61]

Recently the 3 year fixed price contract for electric that I had in place expired. Based on the current rates my per KW/h rate shot up 200%, so I started looking at ways to insulate myself from rising costs. I decided to give solar a try. I live in NE Ohio and after doing a ton of research and price shopping, I think I have found my contractor. There is a 26% tax credit on the panels that expires at the end of this year so I figured there is no time like the present. Soon I will be charging my MME using the power of the sun!

going Solar is a great move, especially with a BEV to charge.... Depending on how many BEV miles you drive each month, don't forget to add that to estimated annual Energy to size the Solar correctly. For most people it means an extra 1.5kW-2.0kW of Solar to charge the BEV at home for your daily miles.

yes the Fed tax credit is 26% if your system is operational by end of 2022, so get under Contract as soon as you can! It can take 3-6 months from contract to operational. The TC might be extended via Legislature, but depends on Congress ability to pass something.

Depending on your State, there may be a State Tax Credit.... NM has 10% for example.

Local Utilities have various flavors of 'net metering'... depending how friendly the terms are in your area, generally results in lower cost to you per kWhr if you amortize the net cost of the production from Solar over the warranteed life of the panels. So, don't go with the low bid or Lease, go for best quality panels (LG, REC, Sunpower, Panasonic have an actual 25/25/25 warranty) and finance yourself w a local credit union or use money from your Portfolio and call it diversification of holdings! The annual savings / net investment *should* work out to 7% ROI 'dividend' for what you are not paying the Utility, and improve as the savings increase over time compared to the retail rate of electricity.

 

[dtbaker61]

I put in solar a few years ago. With the 30% federal credit (now 26%?) and with 300+ days of sun here in NM, payback on the system was just under 6 years. I think I did a pretty good job of estimating system size as I was running a small surplus balance after 2 years of use. Now that I added the EV, I am again paying electric bills. Averaging about $40 month of usage which is way less that the $150/month I was spending on gas. I have been debating adding panels for the car, but I don´t think it is worth it at this point. If my wife gets an EV, I may revisit.

I agree with the buy/finance and don´t lease statement. And find a reputable insaller.

it is generally not advisable to add just a few panels to an existing system.... The fixed cost of Permitting, modifying agreement with Utility, etc are too big a chunk unless you are adding 3-4 kW. This would represent perhaps 2 BEV, or one BEV and adding mini-split heating/cooling in a couple rooms.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

Recently the 3 year fixed price contract for electric that I had in place expired. Based on the current rates my per KW/h rate shot up 200%, so I started looking at ways to insulate myself from rising costs. I decided to give solar a try. I live in NE Ohio and after doing a ton of research and price shopping, I think I have found my contractor. There is a 26% tax credit on the panels that expires at the end of this year so I figured there is no time like the present. Soon I will be charging my MME using the power of the sun!

What is your new cost per kWh including taxes?

In western NC it's $0.11/kWh all in.

 

[Nklem]

Some advice to evaluate your proposal or anyone else do a full financial analysis. What it fully costs you versus what you will get out of it.

Green energy is the most lucrative business in the US and most profitable for a reason. I always say, take the Greed out out Green and we would all be better off. Like dealers and ADM.

I am in Maine. A rule of thumb is take your total capacity you buy, say 10 kw and multiply times .18 (In Maine solar is 18% efficient, it varies all over the country), and multiply that by 8760 hours. That is the total (and most ) power you will get out of the system per year. Many underperform by 10-20% due to other factors. You can decide if you factor that in or not. I certainly would.

In this example 15,768 KWH or 1314 KWH per month (average, more in Summer, less in Winter). I will assume 10% additional losses (your choice). BTW This is the bible of Solar output calculations, based on your address. https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ to determine that factor.

Now let's assume your home rate is $0.17 cents per kWh (Mine), So that is worth, to you , 15768*.9 (your choice factor)*$0.17=$2,412/year. You will need to factor in offset credits (buy power from Grid at night, sell back to Grid during day etc etc, depends on your utility), renewable credits etc. Not factored here and all are different.

Be aware, if you choose to sell your SREC's (renewable energy credits) you are selling the ability to claim that you "use" carbon free solar, as someone else (who does not use solar and gets dirty grid power) is buying them to offset their carbon based "Dirty" power use. They can make that claim. This is semantics but 100% true. You can keep your SREC credits too and claim you are green as can be.

I just looked this up:
https://chariotenergy.com/chariot-university/solar-panel-installation-cost/ " Fast forward to 2021, the average cost for a solar panel installation has fallen 50% to roughly $20,000 (or around $3.20 per watt). ". seems high, but that is what this study is reporting and costs are escalating....

A typical 10 KW system will cost 10*1000*$3.20=$32,000 installed. let's hope you can claim and fully use the 26% tax credit ($8320 in federal taxes), so it's $23,680 out of pocket.

You can do your financing costs and interest calcs based on your term. Let's assume you pay cash. So $23680/$2412=9.8 years simple payback.

If you financed it for 15 years at 3.5%, that's an additional $6791 in interest or Simple payback of 12.6 years.

A quick check, Your electric bill would have been $2412 for the year (this power amount only), your sum of payments for the 1st year as shown here would be $2031. So you are $381 in the black or saved $31.75 per month. It will only improve as costs escalate.

Yes you need to take into account escalation of power costs (look at the past 10 years and see how power has changed by percentage at your home). My utility has increased costs $0.04 per KW in the last 10 years), so that is only 2.5% per year escalation. Many developers tell you 3-5% per year. That is a little excessive but look at your own rate.

I know they say 30 years of panel life, but it's really 20 years where there is winter weather. Output drops at .5% per year due to degredation (not factored here). Inverters last 6-10 years and have to be replaced (Also like your Mach E charger, they are not 100% efficient.) If you do batteries, those must be changed as well and add significantly to the cost/ROI.

Make your decision on your Own merits and use all of the facts to determine your comfort in this huge purchase.

 

[RockwallRick]

I took the EV plunge last year so maybe this year will be the Solar plunge?

 

[nhammerschmidt]

What is your new cost per kWh including taxes?

In western NC it's $0.11/kWh all in.

About $0.13.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

Some advice to evaluate your proposal or anyone else do a full financial analysis.

That was excellent, and THAT is why (at $0.11 per) at 65 I can't 'go solar'. ....BUT, it means that it costs very little to drive our 2 MMEs, about 3.2 cents per mile.

 

[nhammerschmidt]

Some advice to evaluate your proposal or anyone else do a full financial analysis. What it fully costs you versus what you will get out of it.

Green energy is the most lucrative business in the US and most profitable for a reason. I always say, take the Greed out out Green and we would all be better off. Like dealers and ADM.

I am in Maine. A rule of thumb is take your total capacity you buy, say 10 kw and multiply times .18 (In Maine solar is 18% efficient, it varies all over the country), and multiply that by 8760 hours. That is the total (and most ) power you will get out of the system per year. Many underperform by 10-20% due to other factors. You can decide if you factor that in or not. I certainly would.

In this example 15,768 KWH or 1314 KWH per month (average, more in Summer, less in Winter). I will assume 10% additional losses (your choice). BTW This is the bible of Solar output calculations, based on your address. https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ to determine that factor.

Now let's assume your home rate is $0.17 cents per kWh (Mine), So that is worth, to you , 15768*.9 (your choice factor)*$0.17=$2,412/year. You will need to factor in offset credits (buy power from Grid at night, sell back to Grid during day etc etc, depends on your utility), renewable credits etc. Not factored here and all are different.

Be aware, if you choose to sell your SREC's (renewable energy credits) you are selling the ability to claim that you "use" carbon free solar, as someone else (who does not use solar and gets dirty grid power) is buying them to offset their carbon based "Dirty" power use. They can make that claim. This is semantics but 100% true. You can keep your SREC credits too and claim you are green as can be.

I just looked this up:
https://chariotenergy.com/chariot-university/solar-panel-installation-cost/ " Fast forward to 2021, the average cost for a solar panel installation has fallen 50% to roughly $20,000 (or around $3.20 per watt). ". seems high, but that is what this study is reporting and costs are escalating....

A typical 10 KW system will cost 10*1000*$3.20=$32,000 installed. let's hope you can claim and fully use the 26% tax credit ($8320 in federal taxes), so it's $23,680 out of pocket.

You can do your financing costs and interest calcs based on your term. Let's assume you pay cash. So $23680/$2412=9.8 years simple payback.

If you financed it for 15 years at 3.5%, that's an additional $6791 in interest or Simple payback of 12.6 years.

A quick check, Your electric bill would have been $2412 for the year (this power amount only), your sum of payments for the 1st year as shown here would be $2031. So you are $381 in the black or saved $31.75 per month. It will only improve as costs escalate.

Yes you need to take into account escalation of power costs (look at the past 10 years and see how power has changed by percentage at your home). My utility has increased costs $0.04 per KW in the last 10 years), so that is only 2.5% per year escalation. Many developers tell you 3-5% per year. That is a little excessive but look at your own rate.

I know they say 30 years of panel life, but it's really 20 years where there is winter weather. Output drops at .5% per year due to degredation (not factored here). Inverters last 6-10 years and have to be replaced (Also like your Mach E charger, they are not 100% efficient.) If you do batteries, those must be changed as well and add significantly to the cost/ROI.

Make your decision on your Own merits and use all of the facts to determine your comfort in this huge purchase.

My contract is $2.89 a watt before the tax credit. I thought I did pretty well.
Also, my solar panel manufacturer guarantees 85% of the origin output in year 30. So I would expect them to last at least that long.

 

[MustThee?]

I took the EV plunge last year so maybe this year will be the Solar plunge?

I was all excited to take the solar plunge in addition to taking the EV plunge last year. HOA didn’t approve at first but now that they have i found out that the costs went up (inflation and lithium demand and thus price) by 10k from the same company. So not feeling worth doing it.

 

[ZuleMME]

I've been planning to do solar but ran into an issue where I'm limited to about 88% of my needs because I have a meter/main combo unit and cant exceed 40A backfeed in the panel or tap it. Thus I'm torn on it's usefulness in my historically low energy costs so far. Can't decide if I want to take the plunge or not.

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