Tesla Slashes Prices

[Ghost Ryder]

My goodness……. Here is your link;

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812957

No clue why you think this data doesn’t exist. It’s the government, they track EVERYTHING when it comes to vehicle accidents and deaths.

And just for fun, more data:

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/urban-rural-comparison

And more::
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/Publication/810625


Now will you admit Tesla cherry picked data?

I'm going to regret bringing this back up. But the data in those 3 links only separate rural vs urban. Not highway vs non highway. So no, I don't see the data. Try again.

I keep asking for data that shows how many accidents per mile on INTERSTATE Freeways as that's when Autopilot is use. Yet you links do not provide this data.
You claim that there is data, but fail to produce it.

I'll leave it at that. This will be my last post on this topic unless you actually link the data to accidents per mile travel on the HWY.

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[Mach1E]

I'm going to regret bringing this back up. But the data in those 3 links only separate rural vs urban. Not highway vs non highway. So no, I don't see the data. Try again.

I keep asking for data that shows how many accidents per mile on INTERSTATE Freeways as that's when Autopilot is use. Yet you links do not provide this data.
You claim that there is data, but fail to produce it.

I'll leave it at that. This will be my last post on this topic unless you actually link the data to accidents per mile travel on the HWY.

The NHTSA knows and tracks exactly where every crash in the country happens every year.

Do you honestly think that they know things like “67% of fatal rural crashes occur on straight roads….” But don’t know whether or not the crash happened on a highway?

Just because they don’t publish every breakdown of data publicly, doesn’t mean they don’t have the data.

If Tesla wanted access to the data, they could have asked right here:

 

[theduke]

I'm going to regret bringing this back up. But the data in those 3 links only separate rural vs urban. Not highway vs non highway. So no, I don't see the data. Try again.

I keep asking for data that shows how many accidents per mile on INTERSTATE Freeways as that's when Autopilot is use. Yet you links do not provide this data.
You claim that there is data, but fail to produce it.

I'll leave it at that. This will be my last post on this topic unless you actually link the data to accidents per mile travel on the HWY.

 

[Mach1E]

And there it is, highway vs non-highway.

Except it’s the same misleading data, they don’t break down the location of the total US Fleet.

It’s also comparing brand new cars with lots of crash avoidance tech vs “every car on the road.”

Would love to see Tesla vs other similar new vehicles. I’m betting the results would be “similar.”

And maybe more important breakdown:

Tesla highway autopilot engaged vs Tesla highway not engaged.

I know for me with my Bluecruise usage, I only use it on long stretches of boring highway when traffic isn’t bad. Basically when I’m statistically going to drive more miles without a crash.

 

[theduke]

And there it is, highway vs non-highway.

Except it’s the same misleading data, they don’t break down the location of the total US Fleet.

It’s also comparing brand new cars with lots of crash avoidance tech vs “every car on the road.”

Would love to see Tesla vs other similar new vehicles. I’m betting the results would be “similar.”

And maybe more important breakdown:

Tesla highway autopilot engaged vs Tesla highway not engaged.

I know for me with my Bluecruise usage, I only use it on long stretches of boring highway when traffic isn’t bad. Basically when I’m statistically going to drive more miles without a crash.

If you have data to refute it, please post it.

Right now, you are just tin-foil hating and complaining that the data is misleading, but not actually backing up your argument with any hard data.

 

[MacherAWD]

If you have data to refute it, please post it.

Right now, you are just tin-foil hating and complaining that the data is misleading, but not actually backing up your argument with any hard data.

I think he is pointing out that Tesla regularly manipulates data in their favor, 330 mile range on MYLR.... And having worked in software and running stats on large data you can get it to say whatever you want. My first thought was the same as his, let's compare with and without, vs similar newer cars.

 

[Mach1E]

If you have data to refute it, please post it.

Right now, you are just tin-foil hating and complaining that the data is misleading, but not actually backing up your argument with any hard data.

Tim foil hat?

Seems like common sense that a brand new car with crash avoidance tech driving on the highway has an automatic advantage when comparing it’s crash stats vs every car on the road on every road.

It’s a simple case of cherry picking data.

Would be equivalent to using the average salary of people with Bachelors degrees in New York City and comparing that to people without degrees everywhere else in the country.

Yeah, people with degrees make more money, but we already know the average salary in New York City is significantly higher anyways.

 

[theduke]

I think he is pointing out that Tesla regularly manipulates data in their favor, 330 mile range on MYLR.... And having worked in software and running stats on large data you can get it to say whatever you want. My first thought was the same as his, let's compare with and without, vs similar newer cars.

Tesla followed the rules for the EPA listing for their cars. The EPA provides 2 cycles to chose from, and doesn't specify which one companies need to use. This is not unique to Tesla.

I agree, I would love to see more data, but right now, no one has published it besides Tesla's dataset, and a bit on the very minor players like Cruise. Do we have data for Bluecruise?

 

[Woeo]

I'm not sure if they changed their policy, but a quick search shows that people still can get a refund within 48 hours of purchasing the acceleration boost upgrade as of Oct 22. I have a MYP now, so I can't check on the app.

Misunderstood what we were discussing....I thought you were referring to the purchase of the car, not the software upgrade.

 

[MacherAWD]

Tesla followed the rules for the EPA listing for their cars. The EPA provides 2 cycles to chose from, and doesn't specify which one companies need to use. This is not unique to Tesla.

I agree, I would love to see more data, but right now, no one has published it besides Tesla's dataset, and a bit on the very minor players like Cruise. Do we have data for Bluecruise?

Agree that no data is out there aside from the occasional cherry picked stat. I haven't seen anything from Ford, if there was it would show up on this forum

 

[Mach1E]

Agree that no data is out there aside from the occasional cherry picked stat. I haven't seen anything from Ford, if there was it would show up on this forum

I don’t think there is enough data yet.

My guess is Bluecruise will be the same as any drivers aid out there: slightly safer than without it. Especially because (unlike other drivers aids out there), it forces you to pay attention.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

The NHTSA knows and tracks exactly where every crash in the country happens every year.

Do you honestly think that they know things like “67% of fatal rural crashes occur on straight roads….” But don’t know whether or not the crash happened on a highway?

Just because they don’t publish every breakdown of data publicly, doesn’t mean they don’t have the data.

If Tesla wanted access to the data, they could have asked right here:

And yet the NYT nor any other publications out there couldn't get that info. Or maybe the info showed that teslas with AP really are safer and didn't fit their narrative hence they didn't publish it.

In an argument, if you accuse Tesla of manipulating data, then it's up to you to supply the info to prove your point. Otherwise you're just ranting.

And so far, you have not provided the data. All I ask was a simple breakdown of accidents that occurred on the HWY per mile traveled so that we can compare it to Tesla's released data. And yet you have not provided a link to this data.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I think he is pointing out that Tesla regularly manipulates data in their favor, 330 mile range on MYLR.... And having worked in software and running stats on large data you can get it to say whatever you want. My first thought was the same as his, let's compare with and without, vs similar newer cars.

That's the whole point of this argument that's going back and forth. Would love to compare, but so far that data set does not exist, or at least no one can point to it or has published it. And if the investigative journalist at the NYT who wrote a scathing article about Tesla couldn't get that info, then I'm going with: the info does not exist or favors Tesla hence it was not widely published.

Regarding the 330 mile range. That's based on EPA test cycle. Same as Miles per gallon on ICE vehicles. That doesn't hold up in real world range. But I don't see how Tesla is manipulating data when they claim that the their car achieve 330 per charge based on EPA test.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tim foil hat?

Seems like common sense that a brand new car with crash avoidance tech driving on the highway has an automatic advantage when comparing it’s crash stats vs every car on the road on every road.

It’s a simple case of cherry picking data.

Would be equivalent to using the average salary of people with Bachelors degrees in New York City and comparing that to people without degrees everywhere else in the country.

Yeah, people with degrees make more money, but we already know the average salary in New York City is significantly higher anyways.

Can't cherry pick data if the data doesn't exist. That's the whole point. No one is arguing that newer cars with newer tech is less safe then older cars. We're arguing about the claim that Tesla is cherry picking the data.

 

[MacherAWD]

Can't cherry pick data if the data doesn't exist. That's the whole point. No one is arguing that newer cars with newer tech is less safe then older cars. We're arguing about the claim that Tesla is cherry picking the data.

If they chose to release some info but not all that is cherry picking. Its kinda worse than releasing no info.

And I bring up the 330 mile range because it seems every other EV uses the other measure, and gets more than advertised, and every pro post you see for Tesla says, "the range for the money" so Tesla knowingly misleading their buyers is the issue, again, cherry picking their data.

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