Texas Tesla Tragedy

[All Hat No Cattle]

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said data recovered so far from a fatal crash in Houston showed the car’s Autopilot system was “not enabled.” Local authorities believe the Tesla Model S was operating with nobody in the driver’s seat when it hit a tree. Photo: Scott J.

The crash occurred on Saturday when the vehicle, traveling at what police described as "a high speed" in the Houston area, missed a curve and crashed into a tree, then catching on fire. The bodies of the two occupants were in the vehicle's two passenger seats, and the car's owner was the person found in the back seat, according to Reuters.

Well, I'm still baffled. Assume the Technoking is correct, the autopilot system was not enabled.

The police say that the car's owner was in the back seat, and his friend was in the front passenger seat, and the vehicle was going at "a high speed".

So I will repeat what I posted in Post #127.

Who or what, if anything, was pressing down on the accelerator pedal???

Is it possible to activate cruise control and quickly jump into the back seat? Yikes!

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[louibluey]

... Who or what, if anything, was pressing down on the accelerator pedal??? ...

Until the investigation report, there are lots of possibilities, run away driver, or like @Murse-In-Airy said, post #8, strange things happen in high impact crashes and a body could have been thrown into the rear seat. I was a fireman in the late 70's and remember like yesterday being on a small 1 1/2 hose aimed at the back of the back of a crashed car incase the car ignited while a few others were cutting the car open to get the bodies out. The entire time, maybe ten minutes or more, I was staring into the face of some poor (dead) fellow who was squashed behind and above the rear seat, his face intact, but pushed into the rear window.

 

[buffasnow]

Now that is funny right there.

 

[EVS]

It seems some folks are trying to spread the false narrative that Tesla cars needed the new FSD feature to drive itself. That can't be far from the truth. The two "known" deaths in 2016 were on Tesla AP. not Tesla's claimed FSD which is not even released yet. See the Tesla AP demo from 2016, where Tesla claims the car drives itself.



That is an official Tesla AP demo from 2016. it really boggles my mind from where people get the idea that they don't have to be in the driver's seat.

"I have not killed anyone on AutoPilot; therefore no one has killed anyone on AP" is a rather illogical statement some are making. Tesla AP has quite a few deaths under its belt. Like this one where it killed a bicyclist. If what the lawsuit claims is true, it shows that hands on the wheel is a very poor method of detecting driver attention. Safer than humans my foot.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-...led-a-man-in-japan-according-to-this-lawsuit/

Tesla Autopilot Technology Killed a Man in Japan, According to This Lawsuit
....
According to the court filings, the Tesla failed to sense when the car in front of it signaled a lane change and then slowed down to avoid hitting the pedestrians in front of it. The Tesla had been traveling at about 9 MPH but accelerated to 24 MPH when the car in front moved over, hitting the crowd of cyclists.
The driver of the Tesla had his hands on the steering wheel (verified by Tesla’s Autosteer technology) but did nothing to stop, slow, or move the car. What’s interesting is that the lawsuit does not charge the driver with anything, but rather Tesla for building a defective car.

BTW, people are not blaming Tesla AP as much as they are blaming Musk & his co. for lying and over hyping Tesla AP so they can scam customers of $10k for a vaporware. Tesla AP is a level 2+ driver's assist system but that's not how it is being marketed by Tesla.

 

[Mirak]

For real, I ventured over to one of their forums just to see what they are saying about this accident. It’s all “Elon said” this and “Elon says” that. It’s kinda creepy.

 

[garfieldorlando]

I came across this FSD test video: , which is just... unbelievable. I cannot imagine how they allow such thing running on the public road...

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

Until the investigation report, there are lots of possibilities, run away driver, or like @Murse-In-Airy said, post #8, strange things happen in high impact crashes and a body could have been thrown into the rear seat.

Nope. Witnesses.

Mark Herman, Harris County Constable Precinct 4, said evidence including witness statements clearly indicated there was nobody in the driver's seat of the Model S when it crashed into a tree, killing two people, on Saturday night.

And I would presume that these were Tesla owners below?

Washington, DC (CNN Business)Tesla's "full self-driving" feature has attempted to drive under a railroad crossing arm while a speeding train passes. It's nearly driven head on into a concrete wall of a parking garage, attempted ill-advised left turns, clipped at least one curb, and at least one driver was able to set a maximum speed of 90 mph on a street where the posted speed limit was 35 mph, according to videos posted on social media.

 

[Regularmache]

Any person that tries to let the AP continue driving and unbuckling the seat belt surely would not jump into the back seat with alarms blasting in the vehicle.
If you haven't heard the alarms, watch this video:

If this user had AP engaged, unbuckled the seat, the AP would still be driving for 30 seconds even with the alarms going off telling the driver they're an idiot. Also, if the AP system does not see a speed limit sign, the max speed it will go is 45 mph. If it sees a speed limit sign, AP will only allow a speed of 5 mph over the limit. Again, nothing but speculation in this thread including the stuff I've posted. All of the negative speculation, no surprise, from the Ford owners. All the Tesla owners (and those who own both), are telling you Tesla haters there are multiple things in place to warn you're about to do something stupid. I'm not sure why we're even posting these things because all it does is result in 15 responses stating AP/FSD is terrible and is nothing but a menace to society. The irony in this is the fact those that own Teslas and have used AP/FSD, we're alive, we haven't killed anyone, and we haven't destroyed our car in the process. Why? Because we use it responsibly.

'..all of the speculation, no surprise, Ford owners.'....
So Ford owners are all 'speculators'? A lot of stereotyping going on here. My biggest concern is that does not appear to be a 'High-Speed crash looking at the vehicle. Front Seat frames intact, metal housing for Tesla's Display with very little deformity isn't indicative of an un-survivable crash in my 'Opinion'. I worry they died in the Fire and couldn't or didn't get out.

https://wgme.com/news/local/teenager-injured-in-head-on-crash-into-tree

Another Tesla's doors couldn't be opened by people trying to remove the driver from his Tesla. They saw the fire starting and tried valiantly to get the driver out before the Fire eventually forced them to back away and the driver burned to death.

https://tflcar.com/2019/02/tesla-mo...ida-crash-after-car-burns-doors-wouldnt-open/

 

[pt19713]

'..all of the speculation, no surprise, Ford owners.'....
So Ford owners are all 'speculators'? A lot of stereotyping going on here. My biggest concern is that does not appear to be a 'High-Speed crash looking at the vehicle. Front Seat frames intact, metal housing for Tesla's Display with very little deformity isn't indicative of an un-survivable crash in my 'Opinion'. I worry they died in the Fire and couldn't or didn't get out.

https://wgme.com/news/local/teenager-injured-in-head-on-crash-into-tree

My speculation comment is what 20-30 others are commenting negatively about AP. All the previous posts I've made are trying to correct what drivers can and can't do with AP engaged. It's almost impossible to have AP drive at a high velocity unless a user actively tries to circumvent those safety measures. Very few people in this thread have first hand experience with AP. They're just posting anti-Elon, anti-FSD sentiment. That's a completely different topic that I'm not going to dive into (I own 2 Teslas and I don't like Elon. Love the car, hate the guy).

This accident points towards user abuse, user error. This isn't an AP issue. It's a user issue.

 

[Regularmache]

My speculation comment is what 20-30 others are commenting negatively about AP. All the previous posts I've made are trying to correct what drivers can and can't do with AP engaged. It's almost impossible to have AP drive at a high velocity unless a user actively tries to circumvent those safety measures. Very few people in this thread have first hand experience with AP. They're just posting anti-Elon, anti-FSD sentiment. That's a completely different topic that I'm not going to dive into (I own 2 Teslas and I don't like Elon. Love the car, hate the guy).

This accident points towards user abuse, user error. This isn't an AP issue. It's a user issue.

Well Elon changed the auto industry, space industry, payment industry, etc; and I'm a huge fan of his successes including Tesla. I do agree vehicle operators carelessness is to blame, not FSD. My concern is the relatively high number of people survive the crashes, but burn in the vehicle.

 

[Mirak]

The rampant speculation among the Teslarati is that the owner was found in the backseat because he crawled back there in an attempt to escape after the crash because he couldn’t get his driver door open.

I mean, maybe. The first responders seem awfully confident that nobody was driving at the time of the collision, but maybe they made a faulty assumption based upon finding the body in the back.

Seems like this mystery will be solved eventually. Depending upon the condition of the body, the coroner may or may not see indications of airbag trauma or other indications as to where the owner was at time of impact. In a neighborhood that pricey I would think it likely that at least one security cam or doorbell cam saw something. And I expect if there is any doubt, the investigators might also be interviewing neighbors and co-workers. If this guy was doing stupid stuff with his Tesla, this probably wasn’t the first time and he probably bragged about it. Tesla owners yammer about their fancy toys worse than vegans yammer about being... vegan. Somebody likely heard or saw something.

 

[Mirak]

Well Elon changed the auto industry, space industry, payment industry, etc; and I'm a huge fan of his successes including Tesla. I do agree vehicle operators carelessness is to blame, not FSD. My concern is the relatively high number of people survive the crashes, but burn in the vehicle.

I generally agree with you, and share your inclination to applaud entrepreneurial innovation. But I also agree with others that the way Tesla has promoted its “automation,” and overall Tesla cult that promotes the same, plays at least some role in drivers doing very stupid things.

 

[The Electric Duo]

I sorta wish the focus wasn't on AutoPilot by the media, because there are so many other questions.

If it wasn't AutoPilot, why did it crash? Shouldn't the pre-collision assist slowed the car down significantly before impact? If it wasn't high speed, why was it so bad? Why was the battery compromised? If the driver was in the driver's seat and then crawled in the back, why? Why wouldn't he just open door? Is there a problem with the doors if both the driver and passenger couldn't get out?

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