Texas Tesla Tragedy

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[All Hat No Cattle]

Where could the owner of that vehicle possibly have gotten that idea?

Can the Technoking answer that simple question, LOL?

 

[ARK]

Where could the owner of that vehicle possibly have gotten that idea?

Can the Technoking answer that simple question, LOL?

I have to say, how much of the fault is on the drivers themselves though. Did these guys really not think the car could screw up? Especially if they took measures to defeat Tesla’s safeguards, like putting weights on the steering wheel or weights on the driver’s seat?

Tesla might be misleading in what they call the system, but these guys have agency too. Some of the more horrific autopilot crashes over the years involve people deliberately abusing the feature as opposed to say a brand new owner crashing it on day 3 of ownership because they fundamentally misunderstood how ‘autopilot’ works because of what Tesla has named their autonomous system.

This is a partial defense of Tesla in that I don’t think they deserve the full blame - is this really so different than Ford, Chevy, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, etc. making a street legal car capable of going 150mph+ and a driver wrapping themselves around a pole, with or without bystanders involved, when they test that max speed on a public road?

 

[ChasingCoral]

I have to say, how much of the fault is on the drivers themselves though. Did these guys really not think the car could screw up? Especially if they took measures to defeat Tesla’s safeguards, like putting weights on the steering wheel or weights on the driver’s seat?

When you ride a roller coaster or other thrill ride at an amusement park, don't you think it is possible you could get hurt? Case law has demonstrated the shared responsibility of the individual to choose what is safe along with that of the operator to assure safety. Ride operators that engage in fraudulent, negligent, or intentionally harmful conduct are liable.

 

[ARK]

When you ride a roller coaster or other thrill ride at an amusement park, don't you think it is possible you could get hurt? Case law has demonstrated the shared responsibility of the individual to choose what is safe along with that of the operator to assure safety. Ride operators that engage in fraudulent, negligent, or intentionally harmful conduct are liable.

This is true, but to build on your analogy, defeating a car company's safeguards to ensure you are paying attention when the car is driving itself is sort of like tricking the roller coaster attendant that all of the straps are properly in place when, in fact, the rider has deliberately not buckled one of them in because they find it uncomfortable.

Surely you could say the amusement park has a responsibility to make sure a person is strapped in correctly, whether or not the rider cooperates, and not let the ride move forward unless the operator is satisfied that everyone is in fact properly strapped in. But at some point, if the rider is deliberately trying to trick the ride attendant, that is at least partially on them.

 

[Mirak]

I think @ARK and @ChasingCoral are both making good points. The truth may be somewhere in between. Personally, I think the culpability rests primarily on the fools who (likely) did something to defeat the Tesla’s safeguards. But I also think it is fair to surmise that Tesla has created and perhaps encouraged a culture and perception among Tesla enthusiasts that stretches far beyond the actual abilities of its driver assistance features.

 

[jhalkias]

I think @ARK and @ChasingCoral are both making good points. The truth may be somewhere in between. Personally, I think the culpability rests primarily on the fools who (likely) did something to defeat the Tesla’s safeguards. But I also think it is fair to surmise that Tesla has created and perhaps encouraged a culture and perception among Tesla enthusiasts that stretches far beyond the actual abilities of its driver assistance features.

And therein lies the at least contributory negligence that many of us feel Tesla should be responsible for. No doubt that those that defeat some of this safeguards have a great deal of the blame, but Tesla can and should do better - but they instead contribute to the problem because it fosters the mythology that these are "autonomous" above level 2 systems. They should be held accountable as well to some degree.

Let's not forget that people have lost their lives because they believe that mythology. There are many parallels that come to mind in today's society, but too many of them would have me venture into politics - and I won't do that.

This was a tragedy. I always keep that in mind and I won't absolve Tesla when they have failed over and over again to make statements that could mitigate the kind of beliefs that boosts their mythos,and sells more cars.

 

[deadduck]

Elon is saying FSD not enabled, because, well, the car didn't even have it.

At this point, who the hell knows.

 

[JoeDimwit]

This was a tragedy. I always keep that in mind and I won't absolve Tesla when they have failed over and over again to make statements that could mitigate the kind of beliefs that boosts their mythos,and sells more cars.

exactly this. Elon is continually pouring gasoline on the fire, when he should maybe reach for some water to cool his fans off a bit.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

This is a partial defense of Tesla in that I don’t think they deserve the full blame - is this really so different than Ford, Chevy, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, etc. making a street legal car capable of going 150mph+ and a driver wrapping themselves around a pole, with or without bystanders involved, when they test that max speed on a public road?

well it's funny you say that. Jalopnik addressed that in their write-up about "why do we talk about this so much for Tesla anyway" post ( Why We Write About Tesla Crashes Like The One In Florida (jalopnik.com) ):

So, while the driver is definitely a factor here, the technology and how it’s presented is a huge factor, too. Semi-autonomous systems are not the first dangerous feature cars have that can be abused, not by a long shot. But there are differences.​

​

Take the most obvious and basic example: speed. Pretty much every car is capable of exceeding speed limits, and there are many cars you can buy with absolutely absurd amounts of power—power that, frankly, most drivers are not equipped to handle.​

​

As a culture, we have decided that we want to be able to have access to stupid amount of power in our cars, and we mitigate the inherent issues that presents with a comprehensive system of laws and enforcement—speed cameras, speed limits, heavy fines, license suspensions, jail time, police patrol vehicles, radar guns, insurance and so on—to attempt to keep drivers in check.​

​

Is it irresponsible to sell a car with 700+ horsepower to any idiot? Maybe. Maybe not? I’m not really sure, but what I do know is that there are systems in place to keep excessive speeding under control (successful and otherwise) but of course we still get wrecks because of reckless speed, and we generally do not blame the automakers.​

​

I’m not saying this is good or bad, partially because I’m conflicted. But I do know that it’s worth thinking about.​

​

What’s different about technology that enables significant and unsafe speeds and technology that does so much driver assisting it lulls drivers into having unrealistic expectations of what the car is capable of is that no car maker is touting how fast their cars go as a revolutionary safety feature.​

​

Dodge has never pitched the Hellcat as the best choice for safe driving, and no Hellcat owners have angrily come at me telling me how I have blood on my hands because I’m standing in the way of everyone driving 700 hp cars.​

​

The whole write-up is absolutely worth the read.

 

[KKsNewBaby]

Anybody else ever had the bad dream where you’re in the back of your car while it’s driving and you’re thinking “I shouldn’t be back here” but you can’t seem to get to the front? Appears this fool did this deliberately.

Yep, that is my nightmare. As a self-diagnosed control freak, it will be very difficult to give up control to let my car "self-drive".

 

[deadduck]

Apparently the two men were in their 50's and 60's. Didn't see that coming.

Regarding the prior post, I've wondered the same thing about the Tesla rocket's that they make and put on the road. It's also kind of why I break out the "Mustangs weren't Mustangs posts every so often". A friggin' RWD Mach E is actually really fast.

 

[ChasingCoral]

This is true, but to build on your analogy, defeating a car company's safeguards to ensure you are paying attention when the car is driving itself is sort of like tricking the roller coaster attendant that all of the straps are properly in place when, in fact, the rider has deliberately not buckled one of them in because they find it uncomfortable.

Surely you could say the amusement park has a responsibility to make sure a person is strapped in correctly, whether or not the rider cooperates, and not let the ride move forward unless the operator is satisfied that everyone is in fact properly strapped in. But at some point, if the rider is deliberately trying to trick the ride attendant, that is at least partially on them.

Agreed. That's the reason why many of those rides are equipped with safety systems that can only be deactivated by the operator.

If these folks truly were being so stupid as to intentionally defeat the safety controls and leave the driver's seat, I see no liability on Tesla's part in this case. However, there are many others who have lost their lives because they thought Autopilot automatically piloted their cars or Full Self-Driving drove the car by itself, fully.

 

[Joetz]

Made it clear? You mean in fine prints? Because the CEO keeps telling millions of people on twitter & national TV that Tesla Autopilot is already safer than humans. Then one who believes he is telling the truth has to be a fool to be driving himself.

As I hear, the sales people also often inflate its capabilities to sell the vaporware $10k FSD. Just look how many reviewers claim that a Tesla can drive itself on backroads while Ford can't and GM's super cruise can't. All those people need to be in prison.

if there is any good in it, it is that no one who didn't volunteer for these idiotic experiments on public roads was hurt. (I'm assuming the passenger agreed and was of age.)
Wasn't there another recent incident where two teenage girls were found similarly riding a Tesla on on the wrong side of the road till the sheriff stopped them?

The design is also completely bogus. Where is driver monitoring? Or am I to believe that the "super smart" Teslas can't even tell if the driver is in the driver's seat?

The saddest part is that even after years of lying and many accidents, the lying CEO is not penalized by any authorities yet.

The autopilot wasn't engaged when this accident happened

 

[RonTCat]

Car's fault, lol...

https://www.theonion.com/police-ask-tesla-to-drive-in-straight-line-recite-alph-1846724680

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