Texas Tesla Tragedy

[DBC]

Self driving, and what Tesla is offering is vaporware, will still have accidents, people will get hurt, but what if it's at 10% of the rate of today's accidents? We save 27,000 lives / year because the roads become massively safer. Do we, after every accident, still run to the newspapers like we do a plane crash or hold the manufacturer's liable for every accident when in the background they're saving thousands of lives?

Issues like these are complex, need a lot of nuance, and are almost always a give and take between benefits and a price. They aren't clear cut like seatbelts, which save lives, although people fought them for years because people gotta people.

I see very little nuance. Seems very simple. There is no evidence that Tesla's system has saved any lives. The claims made by Tesla/Musk on this point are statistical nonsense. On the other hand, assuming it does save lives, it's a simple matter to fix it. GM has had a fix for years. Ford has a fix. You just make sure the driver is paying attention. If not you stop the car.

The problem is, as mentioned, Tesla hypes it and has no incentive to fix it.

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[RunningHorse]

This makes me so upset. I blame a large part of this on Elon and Tesla. This is what happens when you hype something up using misleading names like "full self driving" and promote hands free videos on a system that is not even hands free. No engineering ethics in the way they do business.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

There are still to many unknowns and things that don't make sense about this incident. I don't want to comment on this specific case just yet.

But...

I think Tesla, or more directly, Elon Musk has created a problem. They have created an atmosphere in which many people think Tesla's drive themselves. We've all seen it on YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, etc. One of the top questions I get about the Mach-E from ICE car owners and Tesla owners is, "Does it drive itself like a Tesla?" This myth about Tesla is everywhere. Yeah, I know there are warnings and descriptions in the manual, but Elon ruins it when he tweets his BS. And Tesla ruins it when they show demos of a Tesla making a drive without the person touching the wheel.

Then they will post those "AutoPilot is safer" stats like the ones they just posted a couple of days ago. They point to that as proof that AutoPilot saves lives. It should save lives and it does. But that does not excuse them from the moral obligation to make AutoPilot as safe as they can. I think they have failed to do this with a lack of driver monitoring system and continuing to propagate the myths about their systems.

Again, this may not even apply in this situation, but overall I think Tesla is failing to meet its obligation to safety.

 

[DBC]

While we don't know all the details yet, I can tell you that Autopilot can't be enabled in a subdivision. It's disabled in that case. And these quotes from the story referenced in this thread seem to indicate that's where they were:

The Woodlands is not what you think of when someone says "subdivision". It's huge with many main arterials. Maybe 5 miles from one end or side to the other? In fact it's probably bigger than many towns in Texas. So it wouldn't be shocking or surprising if you could enable Autopilot there. I'd be surprised if you couldn't.

 

[macchiaz-o]

One of the top questions I get about the Mach-E from ICE car owners and Tesla owners is, "Does it drive itself like a Tesla?"

I get asked this all the time, too. Really sad and makes me nervous to share the road with some of these people.

 

[pt19713]

Of course we don’t know all the details yet, but this is a good take.

The car goes into park if the driver leaves the seat. Driver probably isn't being fully honest.

 

[deadduck]

I see very little nuance. Seems very simple. There is no evidence that Tesla's system has saved any lives.

How would you know if it did? No one's gonna report their Tesla slamming the brakes and hitting, nothing.

The claims made by Tesla/Musk on this point are statistical nonsense. On the other hand, assuming it does save lives, it's a simple matter to fix it. GM has had a fix for years. Ford has a fix. You just make sure the driver is paying attention. If not you stop the car.

It's not a perfect fix because even if your eyes are on the road, if the car locks, someone runs in front of you, you've got to grab the wheel, get your foot on the brake, etc.

The problem is, as mentioned, Tesla hypes it and has no incentive to fix it.

I don't disagree, I think what's Tesla doing is borderline criminal, if not on the safety front, certainly it's mislabeling a product in a way that we wouldn't allow on a label for a package of chocolate.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The car goes into park if the driver leaves the seat. Driver probably isn't being fully honest.

Right.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38787...gerous-sleeping-tesla-driver-stunt-for-tiktok

 

[deadduck]

The car goes into park if the driver leaves the seat. Driver probably isn't being fully honest.

Is the driver in a position to comment at this point?

 

[Blinkin]

This is sad. I understand the manual makes clear that the driver must have their hands on the wheel and be paying attention at all times, but the entire way this has been marketed and structured undermines that premise.

These folks killed themselves, which is as regrettable as it was avoidable, but it could have killed innocent bystanders. Why does everyone have to share the road with this type of unsafe vehicle? And why doesn't NHTSA wake up, smell the coffee, and have Tesla either fix it or pull it?

And clean up their dumb forums and social media. Tesla has always made only the barest fig leaf efforts to discourage the various "hacks" that people use to take their hands off the wheel woke using autopilot. They've oversold that technology for years and it's going to damage the reputation of BEVs and driver assistance systems to the detriment of everyone else if they don't start acting responsible.

 

[pt19713]

Right.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38787...gerous-sleeping-tesla-driver-stunt-for-tiktok

Blame the driver, not the car. There are safety things in place but people will find ways to circumvent them.

 

[pt19713]

Is the driver in a position to comment at this point?

Is it not possible the driver fled the scene?

 

[BMT1071]

Is it not possible the driver fled the scene?

I guess that depends on your definition of possible.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Blame the driver, not the car. There are safety things in place but people will find ways to circumvent them.

Is it not possible the driver fled the scene?

My mistake for replying.

 

[littlD]

I guess that depends on your definition of possible.

And here's the subdivision where the crash occurred per the video from the TV channel reporting on it. I doubt my pin point is accurate, yet this is the two roads mentioned on the video.

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