Texas Tesla Tragedy

[LagerHead]

..., and even investing in a crypto currency you probably don't understand because the CEO tweeted about it.

Well, I've never invested in cryptocurrencies but it sounds like you are jealous about the piles of money made by those people who did.

I know I'm jealous!

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[The Electric Duo]

I see your point but I think you are over-estimating how long it will take for AI Autonomous systems to improve beyond humans. At that point, they will be better than humans, even with other human drivers sharing the same road.

To understand how this could be it is necessary to understand how AI actually works. Too many people think of it as a computer programmed with "if, then" statements. It doesn't work that way. It actually develops a kind of driving intelligence and I think it's a near certainty it will surpass the average human driver shortly in terms of safety.

Of course, AI Autonomy will cause some accidents than a human would not but it will prevent 10 accidents that a human would have over the same number of road miles.

My point is, I think the situation we currently have, with people needing to monitor it, will not last very long. In hindsight, this period will appear to have been over almost before it started.

That's the problem, AD may quickly become better than humans quickly, but it isn't that simple. It is about perceptions. And if we don't address that, it will set back the whole industry. Many people have a fear of flying although we can prove with statistics it is much safer than driving. Even if we can demonstrate that AD is safer, the imperfections in the system we get a lot more attention. Some we call for bans of using the technology at all.

And we can't simply say, don't worry about the accidents or deaths because in a few years, it will be worth it. Strictly looking at the numbers, you could argue that it makes sense. But dealing with humans, it will be hard to justify that your system killed someone, but don't worry, the next version won't make that mistake.

 

[The Electric Duo]

Well, I've never invested in cryptocurrencies but it sounds like you are jealous about the piles of money made by those people who did.

I know I'm jealous!

Nope. I've owned Bitcoin (and some others) for years. The last big chunk of BTC I bought was when it was about $4,000.

 

[buffasnow]

Can you give a single example that relates directly to claiming that current products don't require a driver?

I didn't think so - it's all made up FUD.

Still waiting for the evidence you possess from the crash scene. A single example would be great.

 

[buffasnow]

Public relations department exist to cause you to think more favorably about their company. PR, get it? And guess who pays for that cost? That's right, you do, their customers! They have YOU pay to convince you how great their products are!

Uncle Elon may have concluded that it made financial sense to eliminate the PR department after some folks messed up that paradigm by doing the evangelism for free.

I'm glad Tesla fired their PR department - it makes their cars a slightly better value. I don't want to pay the manufacturer of my car to convince me it's good - I want the product, and the value it offers, to speak for itself!

Yes, remove all levels of administration so beneficial utterings are received directly from dear leader!

 

[Mirak]

Perception is reality. Tesla has misled and therefore the perception is wrong. You can argue as much as you want (and the other Tesla stans) that the fine print is there or it is in the manual, but the reality is that they have created the misconception that AutoPilot makes a driver unnecessary for many people. The chart indicates that very fact for Tesla and to a lesser degree some of the others. I don't hate Tesla. I think their technology is fantastic. But Tesla is staking the claim that they are the leader in autonomous driving. As such, they should lead the way in driver management systems. They should also expect to get the most attention when it comes to criticism. Again, they can't have it both ways. They can't have all the praise but ignore any of the criticisms.

Yeah this is why I think Tesla is responsible for over-selling the “autonomous” functionality of its vehicles. They can have all the fine print in the world, but they clearly are not doing much of anything to tamp down the myth among Tesla enthusiasts and the general public that Tesla can, or will soon be able to, drive themselves. The myth is good for sales. All the YouTube videos of irresponsible use of AP is good for sales. It’s all very “wink wink - sure you shouldn’t do this from a liability standpoint, but look how great it works!”

 

[Mirak]

This is true and the same can be said about every other loyal fan bases. Mach-E owners are in the same boat, with the little brother syndrome.

Oh, there’s some folks around here who are Mach E sunshine pumpers for sure, but I wouldn’t call it little brother syndrome. That implies envy and there ain’t nobody here that’s envious of the Model Y - except perhaps when it comes to more refined software and public charging. Ford will catch up in those areas eventually. The MY will never catch up to the MME in cabin refinement or eye-grabbing good looks. Everybody who bought a MME had plenty of opportunity to take a good long look at the MY… and chose the MME for a reason.

 

[The Electric Duo]

Yeah this is why I think Tesla is responsible for over-selling the “autonomous” functionality of its vehicles. They can have all the fine print in the world, but they clearly are not doing much of anything to tamp down the myth among Tesla enthusiasts and the general public that Tesla can, or will soon be able to, drive themselves. The myth is good for sales. All the YouTube videos of irresponsible use of AP is good for sales. It’s all very “wink wink - sure you shouldn’t do this from a liability standpoint, but look how great it works!”

I should have recorded the salesman when I took a test drive. He said something along the lines of, "Two quick pull downs on this one (the right stalk) will put in AutoPilot and the car will drive itself."

 

[ARK]

Elon would not lie about what the telemetry contained because that would only compound matters if it was determined he made it up.

Lie is a strong word. People can give a half-truth, be misleading, or otherwise not be wholly accurate in what they say without going so far as to tell an outright lie.

I’m not saying that’s what necessarily happened here, but you should be more skeptical of the company’s statements on this perhaps even more than you have been of the initial investigators results.

It’s not necessarily the case that the complete truth if/when it comes out would hurt Tesla to a greater degree if it turns out that Tesla’s statements to date are inaccurate. This story is in the news cycle now. If Tesla has to backtrack in several months because of ‘new’ findings, it might not be very damaging at all since this crash would be old news.

Not saying this necessarily is what is happening here since we just don’t have good info, but my point is I disagree with the premise that just because the company said something it must be true because it will definitely be worse for them if it turns out not be to be true. It is very much possible they will deny now so that they can stall for time until people have mostly forgotten about this crash.

 

[The Electric Duo]

Sure. You could make that argument for any car. No seat belt and the cruise control disables or whatever.

I never said it shouldn't. All manufacturers should do these safety checks. All manufacturers need DMS. I got back into this discussion when someone asked why no one commented on that video stunt the Kilowatts pulled. My point then was that it was a stupid stunt and I generally don't engage over stupid antics. It wasn't done in a controlled environment and it was only done as a "But what about Ford?" stunt because Tesla was getting criticized.

 

[jhalkias]

Elon would not lie about what the telemetry contained because that would only compound matters . . .. If it's written and published it must be true. That's how gullible some people are. It's actually sad.

Do you actually read what you say? ?

 

[jhalkias]

And I for one, have had about enough of all this talk about Fud . . .

This IS the Fud you are talking about - right?

 

[BMT1071]

Do you actually read what you say? ?

I was almost ready to start removing people from the 'ignore' list to see both sides of this conversation, but now I think I'm having more fun trying to guess who the other user is. ? ?

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